NJO Worth Picking up?

[Stravo]

Is the NJO books, specifically the Vong saga worth the effort (and expense) of picking up and reading? The general feeling I get from other people's comments is that it's very hit and miss.

If the stroyline doesn't require you to read all the books can you steer me to the good ones then?

After having read the ROTS novelization (in two sittings) I've got a taste for some Star Wars novelization action but gave up after KJA's 'wonderful' helmsmanship of the early EU.

If you honestly think I should just steer clear please let me know as well.

This thread is NOT an invitation to "EU SUXXORS!!11!!!" bullshit please. Any of that crap will be handled appropriately by myself. I'm reading these for pleasure not to analyze or evaluate how these stories fit in with the movies, etc.

[Drunk Monkey]

I would recommend renting them from the library that would save you some cash if you don’t like the NJO.

[HemlockGrey]

Personally I would advise against it. There are a few good books, but assloads of shit.

[000]

Nooo!

Seriously, I only read the first five, but it was enough to turn me off. One dimensional villians with silly biotech aren't much fun, and the good guys being idiots to make the bad guys tougher aren't either. Plus the NJO is responsible for the destruction of Coruscant, among other terrible crimes.

Just my opinion though-- it seems like you either love it or hate it. You could try a couple if you want, but don't count on it being any good.

[Noble Ire]

I personally enjoyed the NJO, although you do have to sit through a good deal of boring bits. One of the good things about the NJO is that if you are interested in the story, but cant stand a specific book, there are some you can just drop with little effect on overall enjoyablity (if you must do this, I would suggest Balance Point and Dark Journey.)\

And to the criticsm of too much stuff changing, I say "So what. Change is good. Really, do you want yet another hidden Imperial superweapon?"
Chewie's death was a bit sudden(they could have given him a better death at least) but the destruction of the NR and Coruscant serve to shake up some new good story lines.

One dimensional villians with silly biotech

To this I say if you drop a book series after only 5 of 20, you tend to miss alot. And as for the biotech, at least its done better than in ST.

[JediMaster415]

I would suggest The Unifying Force, Destiny's Way, Star by Star and (for the sheer emotional impact) Vector Prime.

Personally, I like all the books (including Traitor and Dark Journey).

[Kuja]

One dimensional villians with silly biotech

To this I say if you drop a book series after only 5 of 20, you tend to miss alot.

To this I say if the villains of a series are not well-developed by the fifth book, that is a poor series that should be avoided.

NJO books are varied, ranging from moderately good to utter crap. The heros are annoying, the villains are irritating, and the New Republic shows itself for the shaky sack of crap of a government that it really is.

Just avoid the NJO. Finding the rare jems is just not worth the amount of crap you have to dig through.

[Noble Ire]

To this I say if the villains of a series are not well-developed by the fifth book, that is a poor series that should be avoided.

Well, to this I say I found the villians annoying on occasion, but I thought some were interesting, and the series is somewhat handicapped by not introducing any of the main villians (except for Nom Anor, who I admit to hating) until the thrid or fourth book.

and the New Republic shows itself for the shaky sack of crap of a government that it really is.

Considering the amount of NR hating around here, I would think some would enjoy reading that part.

[Kuja]

Well, to this I say I found the villians annoying on occasion, but I thought some were interesting, and the series is somewhat handicapped by not introducing any of the main villians (except for Nom Anor, who I admit to hating) until the thrid or fourth book.

I admit that the Vong had moments. They did. But they were so blatently designed as "T3H UB3R M3NACE!" that they just pissed me off and turned me off to pretty much anything they had a hand in.

Considering the amount of NR hating around here, I would think some would enjoy reading that part.

It is IRRITATING to read. After watching the New Republic stay one step ahead of falling apart for twenty years (ineverything from BFC to The New Rebellion) and entering NJO to see that they STILL don't have their act together, it's fucking frustrating.

Hell, what do you think brought on the NR-hating in the first place? It's their constant fucking incompetance.

[Noble Ire]

It is IRRITATING to read. After watching the New Republic stay one step ahead of falling apart for twenty years (ineverything from BFC to The New Rebellion) and entering NJO to see that they STILL don't have their act together, it's fucking frustrating.

Hell, what do you think brought on the NR-hating in the first place? It's their constant fucking incompetance.

Again, this is true. But I at least thought it was good that the main characters finally recognized the NR as being a bad system, which eventually fell. As I say with Chewie and Coruscant, change is good.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Is the NJO books, specifically the Vong saga worth the effort (and expense) of picking up and reading?

Just so you know, the New Jedi Order series is pretty much the Vong saga.

[Drunk Monkey]

It is IRRITATING to read. After watching the New Republic stay one step ahead of falling apart for twenty years (ineverything from BFC to The New Rebellion) and entering NJO to see that they STILL don't have their act together, it's fucking frustrating.

Hell, what do you think brought on the NR-hating in the first place? It's their constant fucking incompetance.

Again, this is true. But I at least thought it was good that the main characters finally recognized the NR as being a bad system, which eventually fell. As I say with Chewie and Coruscant, change is good.

Coruscant being beat to hell I have no problem with, Chewie diening however I do. Chewie was to fucking cool to kill they should have killed Lando.

[HemlockGrey]

My main complaint is that the Vong are not difficult to defeat because they are tricky, clever, competant enemies. The Vong are difficult to defeat because the New Republic is stupid, Vong biotech is uberwank, and VONG ARE IMMUNE TO TEH FORCE OMG. Thus the whole threat is ridicolously contrived.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The entire concept of a viable threat to a galactic-scale power invading from parts unkwown I knew from the outset was totally beyond the scope of imagination for Expanded Universe authors. I knew it was going to suck balls.

[Noble Ire]

Vong biotech is uberwank, and VONG ARE IMMUNE TO TEH FORCE OMG.

Time and time again, Vong Biotech has been shown to be incredibly lacking. Their frigates can be destroyed in less than two minutes by a single squadron of X-Wings with 6 torpedos. And Dovin Bassals suck.

As for the force thing, they had to have an opponent for the Jedi, and without have dark jedi, Sith, or droids, thats what they had to do. I had no problem with it.

[Kuja]

Which was whi they pissed me off. The writers didn't even ATTEMPT to hide the fact that they wanted the most uber enemy possible. They were so blatently custom-tailored to kick anything SW had to offer in the nuts that it was fucking irritating to read. Just copout after fucking copout. And the Jedi identity crisis was a poorly-contrived way to keep Luke&co from issuing the biggest fucking smackdown since the Purge.

[Noble Ire]

The entire concept of a viable threat to a galactic-scale power invading from parts unkwown I knew from the outset was totally beyond the scope of imagination for Expanded Universe authors. I knew it was going to suck balls.

Did you actually read it?

I'll admit some of it was very minimalistic (the placement of three star destroyers being a senate worthy matter) but overall, I think it was done as well as it could have been. The Battle of Coruscant for one.

[Knife]

Meh, I'd recomend;

Vector Prime. Since it's the first one, you'd kind of need it too know what the hell's going on. It's not a great book by no means but it's not horrible either.

You can read the two Dark Tide's books but they are hit and miss and really just rehash the 'threat' of the Vong.

Agents of Chaos (I and II) are the same. It's an insult to Han Solo but introduces Vernge (or what ever her name is). The bad thing with Dark Tides and Agents of Chaos is that it doesn't focus on the war, rather on characters on the fringe of the war.

Balance Point actually starts getting into the war. It also developes the characters a bit, especially Jacen. I'd recomend it to continue on with the plot.

Edge of Victory I and II are ok books. Once again it moves the over all plot ahead, if slowly. I'm not wholey recomending it but their ok.

Star by star. Now we get into it. What every one wants. The damn war. This book is about the war, not about the people running around out side of it. Good book.

Dark Journey. Skip it. It's aweful.

Rebel Dream and Rebel Stand. Highly recomend both. We're back to the war. This is what starwars is about, war in the stars.

Traitor. Not a bad book, but way out of character for the series. It's a mind fuck but also has some good shit in it with Ganner. Jacen finally grows up too, and some of the whineness of the Jedi Order gets shit canned.

Destiney's Way. To be honest, I don't remember much about this book. Sorry.

Force Heritic I and II and III. Meh. Not horrible but not recomendable. The first I and some of II are good. The closer you get to III the worse it gets.

The Final Prophacy. I would have made this the series finally, IMO. Good book, wrappes up most of the IMO interesting plot points.

The Unifying Force. I didn't really like the Secot plot at all, so this book is meh to me. The final dual at the end is neat, but when all is laid to bear, I felt cheated.


Mostly, those books that actually dealt with the war were pretty good. Those that took the war as a backgroud and developed their own cause's and motivations to drive the characters, really sucked.

I read all of them last year, rented from the library. Very few that I would consider buying. Rebel Dream/Stand I would buy. Star by Star and such.

Hope that helps.

[Praxis]

Is the NJO books, specifically the Vong saga worth the effort (and expense) of picking up and reading? The general feeling I get from other people's comments is that it's very hit and miss.

If the stroyline doesn't require you to read all the books can you steer me to the good ones then?

After having read the ROTS novelization (in two sittings) I've got a taste for some Star Wars novelization action but gave up after KJA's 'wonderful' helmsmanship of the early EU.

If you honestly think I should just steer clear please let me know as well.

This thread is NOT an invitation to "EU SUXXORS!!11!!!" bullshit please. Any of that crap will be handled appropriately by myself. I'm reading these for pleasure not to analyze or evaluate how these stories fit in with the movies, etc.

I would recommend them. Some of them suck, definitely. Balance Point and Dark Journey and the three Force Heretic books stand out. Dark Journey ESPECIALLY stands out. And Vector Prime absolutely sucks, but you must read it to get started and see Chewie's death. Just reserve judgement when you read Vector Prime.


However, outside of the Thrawn trilogy, the three books Star By Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force are some of the absolute best books of them all. Great peices of writing.

I'll admit some of it was very minimalistic (the placement of three star destroyers being a senate worthy matter) but overall, I think it was done as well as it could have been. The Battle of Coruscant for one.

You know, it really depends which books.

Some of the authors are extremely minimalistic, like you said.

Others are the precise opposite, like Star by Star and Destiny's Way.

An example of Star by Star: The Battle of Coruscant, like you mention.
TENS OF THOUSANDS OF STARSHIPS. Two layers of planetary shields. A dense minefield that surrounds the entire freakin' planet, with intelligent mines that home in on nearby enemy ships. A layer of Golan defense platforms surrounding THAT. THEN the ships defending THAT.

It's absolutely sweet I especially love the part when they reactivate the minefield with the Vong ships passing through, sending literally *thousands* of crippled Vong ships slamming into the planetary shield which holds easily against it.





Knife: I agree with your assessment mostly. My disagreement are...

Vector Prime: Not horrible? I disagree very strongly. Come on. Remember how they destroyed the planet? They heated it, therefore it froze.

Agents of Chaos: While it introduces Vergere, it does so as a Vong slave, not a Jedi.

Balance Point: While everything you say is true, you don't actually state how good it is. It's IMO not very good. It advances the plot of the CHARACTERS, but does absolutely NOTHING for the war, since the entire thing focuses around one stupid planet that isn't even inhabited on the surface. It still is a must read though, because of Jacen's duel with Tsavong Lah that causes his Jedi obsession.

Destiny's Way: Similar to Star By Star. All about the war. Major characters die, Ackbar is put in charge and kicks the Vong butt halfway across the galaxy.

Force Heretic: No so much bad as just boring. Luke and Leia going from planet to planet saving everyone on the way just gets old VERY fast.

The Unifying Force: Gotta disagree, the entire final battle in the war (the second half of the book) was top notch and absolutely awesome.





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If you have the money I recommend reading everything. Rent the books that suck, buy the ones that rock.

[Ace Pace]

Just to add to Knife's post, I agree with most of his points, but I'll add to Destiny's way.

THAT was the uber NJO book, it was simply awesome, had Ackbar atlast showing off.

[Crazedwraith]

I feel a couple of essential reads for you would be 'Traitor' and 'Destiny's Way' mainly for Vergere alternate jedi philosphies.

The only few that was actually a chore to try and jedi were Force Heretics. I ditched it after the first of the trilogy. I also couldn't re read 'Dark Journey' although it does have the vital development for Kyp Durron in the first couple of chapters. If you don't read that you just have a whole load of people commenting on the fact he's changed and won't know why.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I'll admit some of it was very minimalistic (the placement of three star destroyers being a senate worthy matter) but overall, I think it was done as well as it could have been. The Battle of Coruscant for one.

Star by Star is overrated. It had the usual shit about Jedi philosophy. The Battle for Coruscant, which was the thing that probably brought everyone to buy it, covered maybe 10% of the length of those stupid Jedi. If there is any detail about the battle, it has to be about Luke's little assault team.

Maybe Denning was smart enough to figure she's not up to portraying that climactic battle in any detail. Maybe she just doesn't realize that we are getting sick of Jedi philosophies. Maybe she doesn't realize just by cutting out a few dozen pages from the Jedi tripe, the battle can be that much better. But the battle was overly short indeed. Someone pointed out they wanted to hear, for example, Bel Iblis' speech to his troops before his charge into the cluster.

Basically, Stravo. Here's the thing. If you really want to think of the New Republic as a genuine new hope, the reward of beating the Empire, don't read NJO at all. The New Republic had problems before, but before NJO you would see them as just that ... problems. After NJO, you would look back at those problems and see a government that had never worked right. At least that's what happened to me.

[Ace Pace]

Kazuaki, did you think that maybe that was the point? Showing the NR was fundamentally unstable?

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Kazuaki, did you think that maybe that was the point? Showing the NR was fundamentally unstable?

That could be, but while I love dissing the NR (makes the Empire look just that little bit better), I think it pisses on the original intent of making the NR. The NR is supposed to be that bright new hope after defeating the Empire, the reward for winning over impossible odds ... it'd last 25000 years like the Old Republic before it. Democracy was supposed to work, to truimph over totalitarianism, cooperation was supposed to win out over tyranny. Sure it has problems, but it'd go over them, because the people were good. The Empire was the mistake that did no good and all bad. It is less moral, less efficient, less capable of mobilizing the masses...

That's the kind of feeling they were trying to sell you pre-NJO. Now, the New Republic can't mobilize to save their asses ... against a one-world enemy. Sigh...

The title for SW:IV was "A New Hope", not "A False Hope" as NJO seems to imply it is.

[McC]

I got about 3/4 the way through the NJO before I threw up my hands in disgust. It's many things, but it is not Star Wars. I strongly advise even touching it.