NJO Worth Picking up?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Nah, I call them prostitutes. Slut for me is just a general derogative, like ass-hat, dick-turd, fucker, etc. Freely interchangeable with bitch, whore and the 'c' word that if I say out loud 99.999% of the females in the room want to smack me (I don't get it, my sister doesn't get it, maybe its a skip thing - hehe).

Cunt?

Here are the problems with the NJO:

Extreme minimalism.
Inconsistency in characterization, motivation, strengths of characters, factions, and technology.
The entire threat and war is contrived by weakening the good guys, not by making a clever or effective enemy.
Scientic stupidity/just not-Star Wars (Biotech, evil alien invaders)

[Crown]

Nah, I call them prostitutes. Slut for me is just a general derogative, like ass-hat, dick-turd, fucker, etc. Freely interchangeable with bitch, whore and the 'c' word that if I say out loud 99.999% of the females in the room want to smack me (I don't get it, my sister doesn't get it, maybe its a skip thing - hehe).

Cunt?

Yep, most girls I know go bat-shit crazy if I use that word, even when calling a guy that - noooooooo idea why.

[Noble Ire]

Extreme minimalism.

I realize that this appears several times, but not in any significant way. Give me an example.

evil alien invaders

Now your just reaching for things.

[Ace Pace]

Extreme minimalism.

I realize that this appears several times, but not in any significant way. Give me an example.

Vector Prime, 3 ISD's would be enough to stop the Vong from establishing a beach-head.

The entire first third of the series.

But then you have the biggest about-face in history of the EU. 10000+ ships in SbS.

[Noble Ire]

Vector Prime, 3 ISD's would be enough to stop the Vong from establishing a beach-head.

Yes, I already noted that as being a problem. Although they do rectify this after SbS, as you pointed out.

[Praxis]

Extreme minimalism.

Depends which books you've read. Star by Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force are FAR from minimalism. One of the early books have small groups of warships easily immolating planets. Remember the one with Obroa Skai? The attack from just a couple warships essentually left the planet visibly glowing red in some areas from ORBIT.

SBS, even ignoring the >10,000 ships in one battle, the defenses of Coruscant are STAGGERING. Planet-emcompassing minefields, rings of golan defense platforms surrounding the entire minefield, etc.

Remember Fey'lya's death? (Star by Star is worth reading just to see him die) A multi-kilometer blast that wipes out half of Imperial Palace and knocks over several buildings (on CORUSCANT), and destroys several drop ships and 25,000 Vong warriors, in a small bomb hidden in Fey'lya's desk drawer.


It really depends which books you're reading. You'll have Vector Prime where 3 ISD's are a significant threat, or Rebel Dream where an SSD planetary bombardment fires a thousand shots to immolate a few kilometers, but then you have the other books.

[swaaye]

There are some terrible books and there are some fantastic books. Traitor is friggin amazing IMO, for example. I've read all of them but some I literally skimmed thru. I read them as they were released. I feel a bit empty now with no NJO books on the horizon

I'd give them a shot if I were you.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Depends which books you've read. Star by Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force are FAR from minimalism. One of the early books have small groups of warships easily immolating planets. Remember the one with Obroa Skai? The attack from just a couple warships essentually left the planet visibly glowing red in some areas from ORBIT.

That's what supposed to happen...

SBS, even ignoring the >10,000 ships in one battle, the defenses of Coruscant are STAGGERING. Planet-emcompassing minefields, rings of golan defense platforms surrounding the entire minefield, etc.

When you consider that those 10,000 (4 Imperial Sector Groups worth) are supposed to be half of the entire NR space navy, and the of the 10,000, there might be only 625 Star Destroyers (26 Sector Groups worth), and you are used to Imperial-level production (DSII, quadrillions of credits to fling from one sector ... etc), you will see what's wrong.

I know they think this is a damn big battle, but to us it is minimalism, and from a SoD standpoint a sign they can't mobilize for shit.

[Stravo]

It seems the same books come up as good in comparison to the rest. Does it make any sense to just read those? And thanks again for your comments guys. As always this place has the best community for giving advice on books, movies, etc. I've dodged a few minefields thanks to your advice.

One thing that would big the shit out of me is if Luke is completely wussified in this series. In my opinion Luke should be a fucking Force using monster by this point. His worries about falling to the Darkside should be behind him as he has faced the ultimate test in ROTJ.

Unfortunately I take it that is not the case here.

As an interesting side note: In "Making of Revenge of the Sith" by J.W. Rinzler there were some biotech suggestions and Lucas flat out states "I don't like bioships" Interesting considering he OK'd this Vong stuff.

[Noble Ire]

One thing that would big the shit out of me is if Luke is completely wussified in this series. In my opinion Luke should be a fucking Force using monster by this point. His worries about falling to the Darkside should be behind him as he has faced the ultimate test in ROTJ.

This does bother me in previous books, but by this time Luke is becoming more of a ESB Yoda figure, although he does have his moments of ass-kickery. He isnt bothered with the dark side so much, thats passed on to the newer characters.

[Knife]

It seems the same books come up as good in comparison to the rest. Does it make any sense to just read those? And thanks again for your comments guys. As always this place has the best community for giving advice on books, movies, etc. I've dodged a few minefields thanks to your advice.

The one's I outlined, Star by Star, Destiney's Way, Rebel Stand/Dream, Traitor, The Final Prophacy, The Unifying Force, deal with the characters and the war so you can really stick to em and know what is going on.

There are some plot points in the others that carry through, but even then they'll get some rehash in the relevent books to catch you up and it's not worth slogging through all that shit to get those point in their original books.

I'd still read Vector Prime just so you know what the hell is going on, then skip the EU wank a time with plots and characters that have jack shit to do with the war and go straight for those books that do.

One thing that would big the shit out of me is if Luke is completely wussified in this series. In my opinion Luke should be a fucking Force using monster by this point. His worries about falling to the Darkside should be behind him as he has faced the ultimate test in ROTJ.

Unfortunately I take it that is not the case here.

Meh, some issues about the NJO come about and depending on what book, there is some interesting philosophical shit being talked about. Poor Luke is at the mercy of the individual author though. Some times he's cool, others he's whiney.

As an interesting side note: In "Making of Revenge of the Sith" by J.W. Rinzler there were some biotech suggestions and Lucas flat out states "I don't like bioships" Interesting considering he OK'd this Vong stuff.

I give them a bit of a pass, just because I realize they were going for something different in the villan's and what not. Alot of it is silly though, but the root cause was something the SW galaxy wasn't used to and had to adapt to.

[Noble Ire]

I give them a bit of a pass, just because I realize they were going for something different in the villan's and what not. Alot of it is silly though, but the root cause was something the SW galaxy wasn't used to and had to adapt to.

The Biotech is a change, although I never had a problem with it (certainly though, it is better pulled off by different authors.) My only difficulty with it was that everything had to be Biotech, even the clothing had to be alive.

[Knife]

I give them a bit of a pass, just because I realize they were going for something different in the villan's and what not. Alot of it is silly though, but the root cause was something the SW galaxy wasn't used to and had to adapt to.

The Biotech is a change, although I never had a problem with it (certainly though, it is better pulled off by different authors.) My only difficulty with it was that everything had to be Biotech, even the clothing had to be alive.

Like I said, a lot of it was silly. From living cloths to plasma, volcano, cannons. Like molten balls of lava should be a fucking threat to SW tech.

[Noble Ire]

Ideas like Dovin Bassals and War Coordinators were pretty interesting though, and also contributed to knocking the Vong out of their "Uber-invicible" status.

[Kuja]

What? The bullshit was what helped make the Vong so fucking over-uber in the first place.

NR: I have +5 shields, bitch!

VONG: Yeah, well I play my Dovin Basal and attack for 20 damage!

NR: Fuck!

[Ace Pace]

SBS, even ignoring the >10,000 ships in one battle, the defenses of Coruscant are STAGGERING. Planet-emcompassing minefields, rings of golan defense platforms surrounding the entire minefield, etc.

When you consider that those 10,000 (4 Imperial Sector Groups worth) are supposed to be half of the entire NR space navy, and the of the 10,000, there might be only 625 Star Destroyers (26 Sector Groups worth), and you are used to Imperial-level production (DSII, quadrillions of credits to fling from one sector ... etc), you will see what's wrong.

I know they think this is a damn big battle, but to us it is minimalism, and from a SoD standpoint a sign they can't mobilize for shit.

Those 10K ships are NOT the entire navy, since another massive fleet is mentioned as trying to sneak attack the Vong fleet resupplying, and over the rest of the books, there have been mentions of commitments all over the Galaxy which limits what the NR can use(Destiny's way).

[Noble Ire]

What? The bullshit was what helped make the Vong so fucking over-uber in the first place.

NR: I have +5 shields, bitch!

VONG: Yeah, well I play my Dovin Basal and attack for 20 damage!

NR: Fuck!

HOw many NR shields can be defeated by a turbolaser actually firing powered down blasts, and then more powerful ones? Or are bypassed by being preoccupied by a proton torp. and then being completely open to a laser cannonade? Not many. And dont forget due to Dovin Bassal propulsion, a SSD sized YV cruiser was destroyed by a Immobilizer.

[Darth Yoshi]

Just a point about Jaina toying with people in Dark Journey. I'm pretty sure that's because she was all depressed about Anakin dying and Jacen being captured and probably dead as well. I remember either Tahiri or Tenel Ka chewing her out for pushing everyone away.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Those 10K ships are NOT the entire navy, since another massive fleet is mentioned as trying to sneak attack the Vong fleet resupplying, and over the rest of the books, there have been mentions of commitments all over the Galaxy which limits what the NR can use(Destiny's way).

They (and I) did say it was half, and that's bad enough. They only allocated 900 ships to Black Bantha (that raid you mentioned). 8 Sector Groups instead of 4 doesn't impress me a whole lot.

[Lord Poe]

Stravo;

I stopped buying the NJO toward the end. I realized I simply wasn't enjoying them. My advice, do NOT spend money on these books. You'll never read them again. Go to the library, and borrow Star by Star, Rebel Dream, Rebel Stand, and The Unifying Force. Note, if you have to buy one of them, The Unifying Force comes with a CD that has Vector Prime on it, plus a couple interviews with Lucas Licensing personnel.

As for non-NJO stuff, IMHO, the best novels that have come out in recent years are Tatooine Ghost and Labyrinth Of Evil.

[Crazedwraith]

Just a point about Jaina toying with people in Dark Journey. I'm pretty sure that's because she was all depressed about Anakin dying and Jacen being captured and probably dead as well. I remember either Tahiri or Tenel Ka chewing her out for pushing everyone away.

Both Actually At different times, Tenel in Dark Journey and Tahiri in Rebel Dream.

[Praxis]

Depends which books you've read. Star by Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force are FAR from minimalism. One of the early books have small groups of warships easily immolating planets. Remember the one with Obroa Skai? The attack from just a couple warships essentually left the planet visibly glowing red in some areas from ORBIT.

That's what supposed to happen...

SBS, even ignoring the >10,000 ships in one battle, the defenses of Coruscant are STAGGERING. Planet-emcompassing minefields, rings of golan defense platforms surrounding the entire minefield, etc.

When you consider that those 10,000 (4 Imperial Sector Groups worth) are supposed to be half of the entire NR space navy, and the of the 10,000, there might be only 625 Star Destroyers (26 Sector Groups worth), and you are used to Imperial-level production (DSII, quadrillions of credits to fling from one sector ... etc), you will see what's wrong.

I know they think this is a damn big battle, but to us it is minimalism, and from a SoD standpoint a sign they can't mobilize for shit.

Half the entire NR navy, certainly not. It was over 10,000 IIRC, and the NR lost the battle and still kicked Vong butt in Destiny's Way with a larger fleet.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Half the entire NR navy, certainly not. It was over 10,000 IIRC, and the NR lost the battle and still kicked Vong butt in Destiny's Way with a larger fleet.

The force fighting at Coruscant was specifically stated to be half the Navy (and that was before the reinforcements started moving in during the battle). And AFAIK, there were only a few thousand ships fighting in Destiny's Way.

[Mlenk]

This does bother me in previous books, but by this time Luke is becoming more of a ESB Yoda figure, although he does have his moments of ass-kickery. He isnt bothered with the dark side so much, thats passed on to the newer characters.

Meh, the only time i really remeber the writers having Luke kick ass was in the final chapters of The Unifying Force. Admittedly it was an extreme ass-kicking he delivered that sort of made up for his wussification throughout the rest of the series but still IMO it was too little, too late.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Extreme minimalism.

Depends which books you've read. Star by Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force are FAR from minimalism. One of the early books have small groups of warships easily immolating planets. Remember the one with Obroa Skai? The attack from just a couple warships essentually left the planet visibly glowing red in some areas from ORBIT.

SBS, even ignoring the >10,000 ships in one battle, the defenses of Coruscant are STAGGERING. Planet-emcompassing minefields, rings of golan defense platforms surrounding the entire minefield, etc.

Remember Fey'lya's death? (Star by Star is worth reading just to see him die) A multi-kilometer blast that wipes out half of Imperial Palace and knocks over several buildings (on CORUSCANT), and destroys several drop ships and 25,000 Vong warriors, in a small bomb hidden in Fey'lya's desk drawer.


It really depends which books you're reading. You'll have Vector Prime where 3 ISD's are a significant threat, or Rebel Dream where an SSD planetary bombardment fires a thousand shots to immolate a few kilometers, but then you have the other books.

No, most of the time those many ships include tiny shitty stuff the size of a Nebulon-B and Corellian Corvettes, and its gathered from throughout the region or something. This is not reasonable.

The intrinsic minimalism is that any realistic invasion force could overcome the ingrained and established defensive, manpower, infrastructural, and industrial advantages of the entire Star Wars galaxy.