Venators vs. ISD Comparison

[McC]

Look at what you quoted, and you'll see that I said ISD-II.

[applejack]

Look at what you quoted, and you'll see that I said ISD-II.

But Ra was talking about the ISD-I.

EDIT: Because that's the only version covered by the OT ICS.

[Connor MacLeod]

Big engines yeah, but its uglier than even the actis and has that ludicrous "astromech" setup. (of course we have the "pocket-dimension astromech socket" on the actis too...)

I was watching for this the whole damn time in my (so far) two viewings of RotS. Is R2 sticking out the bottom?

Nope

[Connor MacLeod]

I chalk it up the same as I do with the Venators. Design flaws while they're ironing out shit. They did a massive military build up for the Clone Wars and pumped out some designs that while worked, could be heavily improved upon.

I suppose. But it still qualifies as being a much smaller design than we see among the prequels (technically ALOT smaller. I consider a proper "bomber" to be something more like a skipray blastboat.. something closer in size to the Falcon, like the B-wing is.)

Yeah, it's ugly and has the droid socket problem. But the Delta is ugly, has tiny tiny engines and the droid socket problem with the Actis having all three as well and even less internal volume.

I actually like hte Delta, and the tiny engines don't really bother me. If it were a bit larger (like A-wing size) and if you ditched the astrromech dome, it would be a pretty neat design.

[Medic]

An ISD is designed to be a pure space combat vessel, capable of wiping out entire battle groups of lesser vessels. And if they need large landing-capable combat vessels, they should still have hordes of Venators and Acclamators available. It's not as if all those thousands of ships would just disappear after 20 years.

I realize where the comics are in the heirarchy of canon but this is better than nothing: in a SW comic (I think it was the Star Wars: Empire series of comics) you clearly see Venators escorting ISD's while some Rebel frantically says "the Empire brought their slaveships!" It certainly says a lot about an ISD's significance if a mighty Venator is delegated to transporting enemy POW's or the citizens or rebellious worlds.

[VT-16]

Venators escorting ISD's

Did it have a single bridge or a double-bridge? If it´s a single, then it is an Acclamator. Could you give the issue-number as well? I´m just checking, got potentially new wikipedia info there....

[JointStrikeFighter]

Also the ISD MarkII guns seem far smaller.

Though i recall wong mentioning that multiple smaller impacts are better against sheilds?

[FTeik]

Contrary to some official sources which describe multiple smaller impacts as better few, but larger impacts are the real thing.

So the ISD-I is better at fighting as ship of the line, while the ISD-II is better for fighting lots of smaller opponents at the same time.

[Iceberg]

The Delta-7 really isn't even too bad either IMHO (though its really cutting it fine I think, since its too small to mount any missiles or hyperdrive.) The Actis though is really bad - in addition to being hideous, its got almost no volume for useful equipment at all - its a glorified airspeeder modified for space travel.

At least Anakin doesn't rice out his Eta-2 to look like his damned podracer.

[Vympel]

ROFL- ahhh, the riced up fighter he has in Clone Wars. Just ... ghastly.

I don't know, I like the Eta-2 Actis design. It's the TIE Fighter style cockpit glass that does it for me. It gets nostalgia/continuity points. The ARC-170 design is still far cooler, though.

(Wishes they would redo the Battle of Yavin and Battle of Endor to look like the Battle of Coruscant in terms of CG)

[Illuminatus Primus]

Big engines yeah, but its uglier than even the actis and has that ludicrous "astromech" setup. (of course we have the "pocket-dimension astromech socket" on the actis too...)

I was watching for this the whole damn time in my (so far) two viewings of RotS. Is R2 sticking out the bottom?

Nope

Goddamn it. What is the art department's problem in this film, really? They couldn't design one main character fighter with a droid that fit?

[Vympel]

Goddamn it. What is the art department's problem in this film, really? They couldn't design one main character fighter with a droid that fit?

It's the entire prequel trilogy, really:

1. Naboo N-1 fighter, with the astromech that didn't fit.
2. Jedi Delta-7 Aethersprite, with the astromech that didn't fit.
3. Jedi Eta-2 Actis, with the astromech that didn't fit.

[VT-16]

Naboo N-1 fighter, with the astromech that didn't fit.

How did it not fit?

[Vympel]

How did it not fit?

You're kidding, right? Watch the bit in TPM where R2 gets sucked up into the socket of Anakin's N-1. That doesn't seem somehow wrong to you? Better yet, get the TPM:ICS and see the lengths they had to go to fix that ridiculous error.

[Darth Wong]

Goddamn it. What is the art department's problem in this film, really? They couldn't design one main character fighter with a droid that fit?

It's the entire prequel trilogy, really:

1. Naboo N-1 fighter, with the astromech that didn't fit.
2. Jedi Delta-7 Aethersprite, with the astromech that didn't fit.
3. Jedi Eta-2 Actis, with the astromech that didn't fit.

That's what you get when you hire artsies with no mechanical background in order to design objects which are ostensibly mechanical.

[VT-16]

You're kidding, right? Watch the bit in TPM where R2 gets sucked up into the socket of Anakin's N-1. That doesn't seem somehow wrong to you? Better yet, get the TPM:ICS and see the lengths they had to go to fix that ridiculous error.

Ok, here´s my problem: That fighter appears big enough to fit the entire droid behind the pilot. Now, why did they draw it to make it look like R2´s head had to be separated from his body? It doesn´t make any sense, and I didn´t get any unusual vibes from it in the movie.

[Fw 190]

Ok, here´s my problem: That fighter appears big enough to fit the entire droid behind the pilot. Now, why did they draw it to make it look like R2´s head had to be separated from his body? It doesn´t make any sense, and I didn´t get any unusual vibes from it in the movie.

There's no room for R2's "shoulders" when he sticks his head out of the N-1. The opening is a perfect circle.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I always thought it would have been better if the astromech's legs were detached than for the head to be seperated from the body.

[VT-16]

There's no room for R2's "shoulders"

What a retarded design! And no-one caught that until it was too late? FUCK

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Big engines yeah, but its uglier than even the actis and has that ludicrous "astromech" setup. (of course we have the "pocket-dimension astromech socket" on the actis too...)

I was watching for this the whole damn time in my (so far) two viewings of RotS. Is R2 sticking out the bottom?

Nope

What, wait, it isn't? I could swear that he did stick out of the bottom. I know Obi-Wan's doesn't, but that's because he has an integrated one, again.

I'll have to pay attention later today when I go to my second screening.

EDIT: Damn it, it looks like it might not actually be there during the opening battle. I swear that I've seen images of it with Artoo sticking out of the bottom. Quite a few of them, in fact.

[NecronLord]

Do we have any solid numbers showiung the differences between these two ships and how the one evolved into the other.

Simply put, they didn't. The Venator is more likely to 'evolve' into Imperial split-nose carriers like this one.

[Spartan]

Vympel wrote:

It's the entire prequel trilogy, really:

1. Naboo N-1 fighter, with the astromech that didn't fit.
2. Jedi Delta-7 Aethersprite, with the astromech that didn't fit.
3. Jedi Eta-2 Actis, with the astromech that didn't fit.

At least the Alpha-3 Nimbus has a Q-7 series droid. The little sperical droids at least fit.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Goddamn it. What is the art department's problem in this film, really? They couldn't design one main character fighter with a droid that fit?

It's the entire prequel trilogy, really:

1. Naboo N-1 fighter, with the astromech that didn't fit.
2. Jedi Delta-7 Aethersprite, with the astromech that didn't fit.
3. Jedi Eta-2 Actis, with the astromech that didn't fit.

That's what you get when you hire artsies with no mechanical background in order to design objects which are ostensibly mechanical.

Interestingly, McQuarrie didn't have this problem. The only geometric problem of the OT I know of was the fact that the Falcon set didn't fit the model, and that's not his fault.

[Darth Wong]

Interestingly, McQuarrie didn't have this problem. The only geometric problem of the OT I know of was the fact that the Falcon set didn't fit the model, and that's not his fault.

I suspect that Ralph McQuarrie was the kind of guy who actually knew how to change the oil in his car. I also suspect that Doug Chiang wouldn't know a differential from a dipstick.

[Vympel]

I suspect that Ralph McQuarrie was the kind of guy who actually knew how to change the oil in his car. I also suspect that Doug Chiang wouldn't know a differential from a dipstick.

Doug Chiang's Episode I designs really didn't do it for me at all, but IIRC, he was responsible for the LAAT/i, and since its inspired by the Mi-24 HIND and looks mean as hell (and I also can't spot many major problems with it), he's redeemed in that regard in my eyes . However, he didn't work on Episode III, so the Eta-2 Actis is not really his fault, but its representative of the problems of the design of the PT.