Star Trek revamp

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-20 04:21pm

JUst kill Trek. I loved TOS and it's movies. TNG series is pretty good. The wavers between painful and mediocre. The good has simply been dragged under by the shear weight of crap. Just let it die and rest in peace.

bozman · Post by **bozman** » 2002-11-20 11:36pm

Yeah, let's get the good old Borg back. I'm talking pre Queen here. The ones that you CANNOT negotiate with!

Oh, we also need to eliminate Species 8472.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-11-20 11:50pm

bozman wrote:Yeah, let's get the good old Borg back. I'm talking pre Queen here. The ones that you CANNOT negotiate with!

Oh, we also need to eliminate Species 8472.

Keep the new look of the Borg from ST:FC but yeah, bring back the way the Borg were originially. More interested in technology then species.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-21 12:13am

The problem is that if you bring back the Borg in their 'glory', i.e. as the unstoppable super-cyborgs, then you seriously curtail the story possibilities regarding them. If the Federation *cannot* mount enough firepower to take them on directly, it's *always* going to come down to a magic rabbit out of a hat trick to save the day, and that DOES get old.

Ideally, the Borg would be seen very rarely. Maybe once a season, if that.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-21 01:17am

Uraniun235 wrote:The problem is that if you bring back the Borg in their 'glory', i.e. as the unstoppable super-cyborgs, then you seriously curtail the story possibilities regarding them. If the Federation *cannot* mount enough firepower to take them on directly, it's *always* going to come down to a magic rabbit out of a hat trick to save the day, and that DOES get old.

Ideally, the Borg would be seen very rarely. Maybe once a season, if that.

In the beginning the Borg didn't seem that interested in taking on the Federation. If this was continued they could pop in from time to time because a Feddie ship happened upon a Borg ship which was minding it's own business and got hit. The Borg would still be an ever present threat that would totally dominant if they wanted to take on the Federation. It could add a lot of drama that there was a really big threat that the Federation couldn't handle.

bozman · Post by **bozman** » 2002-11-21 01:56am

I agree with neoolong. The fact that they were reduced to the villain of the week made them completely lame. Let's just know that they are out there, and that they could come at any moment.

bozman · Post by **bozman** » 2002-11-21 02:01am

Oh, and neeolong brought up another great point. I hate how the Federation is made out to be the pinnacle of technology and power. We NEED something that they cannot beat. We need some races or species that could wipe the Feds out of existence if they choose to.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-21 02:36am

bozman wrote:Oh, and neeolong brought up another great point. I hate how the Federation is made out to be the pinnacle of technology and power. We NEED something that they cannot beat. We need some races or species that could wipe the Feds out of existence if they choose to.

It allows for a couple of things.

A. It lets the Federation develop some actual warships that work.

B. It will force the Federation to grow some balls.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-22 12:19am

bozman wrote:Oh, and neeolong brought up another great point. I hate how the Federation is made out to be the pinnacle of technology and power. We NEED something that they cannot beat. We need some races or species that could wipe the Feds out of existence if they choose to.

1) The Romulans were consistently shown to be at least on par with the Federation, if not superior. Let's remember how badly the Warbird slapped around the Enterprise, the Federation's best starship at the time, in Tin Man. A war would probably be very, very bad for the Federation.

2) I disagree. I personally do not care for the popular theme in writing which invariably has the humans at the lower rung. I like a series where we're the fucking king of the hill, damnit!

Now, I have no problems with there being other, bigger hills (like, say, the Dominion) but to arbitrarily say "Oh, you could all be killed at any time" just sounds stupid.

3) The Borg cannot be seen more than very rarely, because they must be a force that requires extraordinary feats to save the day, and you can only do so many episodes before that becomes tiresome.

Not characteristic? Maybe just confident. In Best of Both Worlds, the Borg were thatclose to winning... it was only a special feat on the part of Picard and Data that stopped the Borg.

It is not characteristic of the Borg to ignore technology that they can assimilate. Hell, the Enterprise was inferior to their cube... but they still wanted to assimilate it in "Q Who?". They want technology. The Federation is the biggest single organization in their chunk of the galaxy... and the biggest source of technology. You need some way to rationalize the Borg not coming back to try again.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-22 12:23am

neoolong wrote:
bozman wrote:Oh, and neeolong brought up another great point. I hate how the Federation is made out to be the pinnacle of technology and power. We NEED something that they cannot beat. We need some races or species that could wipe the Feds out of existence if they choose to.
It allows for a couple of things.

A. It lets the Federation develop some actual warships that work.

B. It will force the Federation to grow some balls.

This theme has always intrigued me.
A. What's wrong with the Defiant? Or a militarized GCS? BESIDES the fact that you do not like their style... hell, Omega destroyers from B5 are stupid, and they were deployed by a fully military (Earthforce) organization.

B. What exactly do you mean by balls? Do you mean stupid shit like "Shoot first, ask questions later"? Do you mean "pick fights with their neighbors"? I'd like a little definition to this overall "feddies need more balls" statement.

And my own question: Do you really want "Star Trek"? Or do you want another series that panders to your tastes and really has nothing to do with Star Trek?

If the latter, why are you bothering with the "Star Trek" universe?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-22 01:35am

Uraniun235 wrote:
neoolong wrote:
bozman wrote:Oh, and neeolong brought up another great point. I hate how the Federation is made out to be the pinnacle of technology and power. We NEED something that they cannot beat. We need some races or species that could wipe the Feds out of existence if they choose to.
It allows for a couple of things.

A. It lets the Federation develop some actual warships that work.

B. It will force the Federation to grow some balls.
This theme has always intrigued me.
A. What's wrong with the Defiant? Or a militarized GCS? BESIDES the fact that you do not like their style... hell, Omega destroyers from B5 are stupid, and they were deployed by a fully military (Earthforce) organization.

B. What exactly do you mean by balls? Do you mean stupid shit like "Shoot first, ask questions later"? Do you mean "pick fights with their neighbors"? I'd like a little definition to this overall "feddies need more balls" statement.

And my own question: Do you really want "Star Trek"? Or do you want another series that panders to your tastes and really has nothing to do with Star Trek?

If the latter, why are you bothering with the "Star Trek" universe?

A. I still see the warships like the Defiant and such still somewhat flawed. They can put a lot more weaponry and other stuff in there. One thing that comes up is that Quark is able to fairly easily obtain a working cloak. It can't be that hard to get them. And if other species claim, screw it, its their lives their trying to protect. I like their design, but I think they can be improved. That is the military wing of Starfleet though. There should still be an exploration wing.

B. The captains need to get some balls. They need to actually take steps to protect the Federation. Picard should have taken out the Borg with the paradox program. The phase cloak should be developed. They don't need to go out looking for a fight, but when they have a chance to get a major advantage, they shouldn't just toss it aside.

It's like Section 31. I do not agree with their methods, but I do see their point. Same thing with the group from Star-Crossed that protects the Federation without anybody knowing about it.

As for your questions.

I like ST. I would like another series. I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh on it. I would like the new series to be a bit more like the TOS. Where people did what was right and they did what they had to do as well. They did not go around committing genocide. And if they followed continuity. A series around the Romulan War would be cool. As for exploration, it can still happen. The premise could be that some ship has to go around looking for allies and technology because the Romulans are starting a war and they need to explore to get something to fight back. Okay, a bit like Stargate Sg-1. But I'm sure this is something that would be better than what we have now. Despite how much I like Porthos, Hoshi, and Phlox.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-11-22 11:10am

Uraniun235 wrote: 1) The Romulans were consistently shown to be at least on par with the Federation, if not superior. Let's remember how badly the Warbird slapped around the Enterprise, the Federation's best starship at the time, in Tin Man. A war would probably be very, very bad for the Federation.
.

In Tinman, I think the Warbird had surprised the Enterprise, so her shields were down.

I would agree that Romulan and Federation technology are about on the same par. However, a war between the two would be a Federation victory. The Federation does have a larger fleet. But it would be a hard fought victory for the Federation.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2002-11-22 06:31pm

I wasn't 100% sure about Tin Man; I'd heard here that the Warbird had totally owned the Enterprise. It's been a long time since I saw that episode. And when I said bad for the Federation, I meant that any outcome would mean a lot of damage on both sides.

They can put a lot more weaponry and other stuff in there.

Can they? Are you sure? It seems silly that the Defiant would have a lot of empty space on board.

A series around the Romulan War would be cool.

Except that we just had the Dominion War in DS9. You'd have to be careful not to rehash the old plots from DS9.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-22 07:24pm

Uraniun235 wrote:I wasn't 100% sure about Tin Man; I'd heard here that the Warbird had totally owned the Enterprise. It's been a long time since I saw that episode. And when I said bad for the Federation, I meant that any outcome would mean a lot of damage on both sides.
They can put a lot more weaponry and other stuff in there.
Can they? Are you sure? It seems silly that the Defiant would have a lot of empty space on board.

For me there seemed to be at least some extra space. And remember, a cloak isn't that big.

A series around the Romulan War would be cool.
Except that we just had the Dominion War in DS9. You'd have to be careful not to rehash the old plots from DS9.

True. I was thinking quickly about stuff I would want to see. Enterprise should reach the Romulan War in a couple of years anways right? If the timeline is intact. Enterprise had a good premise(well maybe not the time travel stuff) but could have been a lot better. I even like some of the crew. It is the writing and problems with continuity I have problems with.

I think that Voyager and DS9 both had interesting premises. DS9 did okay. But Voyager just sucked. I mean you have a chance to really go out there with no limitations because you are in a completely new environment. Be creative. But no, we get stories about technobabble and holodeck malfunctions.

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2002-11-22 08:58pm

Uraniun235 wrote:I wasn't 100% sure about Tin Man; I'd heard here that the Warbird had totally owned the Enterprise. It's been a long time since I saw that episode. And when I said bad for the Federation, I meant that any outcome would mean a lot of damage on both sides.

Given the design of SF vessels, a Romulan with a slingshot could take out the Enterprise with her shields down.