THIS SHIT HAS GONE TOO FUCKING FAR!

[MKSheppard]

The problem is, once these rights are gone, we will never get them back.

Now you start crying about your rights. NFA dealers have had to put up with
this bullshit for the last thirty years, and now only when it filters down to the
general population, do you start whinging about it.

[Howedar]

If things get bad enough, I'm definitely leaving the U.S. People ignorant of history don't realize how fast a democracy such as the U.S. can turn into a repressive place, and I don't intend to wait until it's too late to leave.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, loser. I was born here,
grew up here, and I'll be goddamned if the place turns into a dictatorship
on my watch.

I don't know if I'd put it that strongly, but I'm inclined to agree with you.

[MKSheppard]

With all this in mind, do any of you guys think the American citizenry is capable of launching a successful revolution if the government gets too oppressive??

Now, now, SHUT THE HELL UP YOU RIGHT WING EXTREMIST NRA WHACKO!

<oh, Sorry, you're not a right winger>

[fgalkin]

Italy's government exists in name only.

Nah, it exists in actuality too. It's called the Mafia

That's Sicily.

Which happens to be a part of Italy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[MKSheppard]

I don't know if I'd put it that strongly, but I'm inclined to agree with you.

I am not one to roll over for ANYONE, much less some hatfucker from the
Fed Goobermint with a shiney badge talking big $10 dollar words about
"Terrorism"


TIME TO FEED THE HOGS.

[Durandal]

Nah, it exists in actuality too. It's called the Mafia

That's Sicily.

Which happens to be a part of Italy.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

They're different, as any Italian will tell you.

[Shinova]

Where would the military fit into in all this? I've heard that they take oaths to uphold the constitution and defend the public, etc.

What would they do?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Is the US allowed to use NBCs against its own citizens?

[MKSheppard]

Is the US allowed to use NBCs against its own citizens?

Don't be absurd. That would be the start of the 2nd American Revolution,
with the SOUTH leading the way, HURRAH HURRAH.

We now have the majority of the troops THIS time around

[Darth Wong]

Is the US allowed to use NBCs against its own citizens?

They wouldn't do something that violent. They'll cook you slowly.

Ever heard the old line about how you boil a frog?

If you stick the frog in hot water, it will jump out. But if you stick the frog in lukewarm water and slowly raise the temperature, it won't react until it's too late.

That's how they're doing it; chip away one piece at a time. Get everyone used to these intrusions and violations of one-revered constitutional rights. Get people to think it's no big deal. Cook 'em slowly.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Hmm...

Personally, I'd stick the frog in hot water and put a lid on the pot.

What I'm really asking is if the US is restricted by law from using nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons against US citizens.

[MKSheppard]

They wouldn't do something that violent. They'll cool you slowly.

Ever heard the old line about how you boil a frog?

If you stick the frog in hot water, it will jump out. But if you stick the frog in lukewarm water and slowly raise the temperature, it won't react until it's too late.

That's how they're doing it; chip away one piece at a time. Get everyone used to these intrusions and violations of one-revered constitutional rights. Get people to think it's no big deal. Cook 'em slowly.

This isn't Darth Wong!

<sarcasm>

WHO THE HELL KIDNAPPED WONG AND REPLACED HIM WITH
A NRA EXTREMIST WHACKO SPOUTING NRA LIES AND BULLSHIT?!?!


</sarcasm>

How strange that we in the gun culture have been using the Frog analogy
for years and YEARS.

[weemadando]

Please note, I'm not specifically targetting Shep. Its just that I can't be bothered re-transcribing the arguements.

MKSheppard: Why do you think I prefer cash?
MKSheppard: oh gee, mr Sheppard always cashes his checks
WeeMadAndo: American money has anti-counterfeiting strips that can be tracked via metal detectors.
MKSheppard: IIRC, that's for denominations
WeeMadAndo: Combine metal detectors at airports with the video surveillance etc and you know exactly how much cash is being carried.
MKSheppard: they can't tell what you *brought*
WeeMadAndo: and by whom.
MKSheppard: cash is untraceable
WeeMadAndo: Cash is highly traceable.
MKSheppard: they may know you're carryin a few thou, but they can't track each thing you buy
WeeMadAndo: It just takes more legwork.
MKSheppard: explain
WeeMadAndo: Most larger businesses take count electronically.
WeeMadAndo: Most of them also track serial no.s
MKSheppard: maybe in AUS
WeeMadAndo: Banks keep a record of whom they give money to.
WeeMadAndo: Everywhere.
MKSheppard: I get my checks cashed the same place the beaners get theirs
MKSheppard: 4% surcharge, but no ID needed
MKSheppard: and if you fuck those guys over, they'll find you and fuck YOU over
WeeMadAndo: Ever wonder how they cash those checks?
WeeMadAndo: Especially the ones made out in your name?
MKSheppard: You're missing the point
MKSheppard: they might know you make x amount of money
MKSheppard: but it is very hard to figure out WTF you spent it on
WeeMadAndo: No, its not.
MKSheppard: I don't see bank tellers
WeeMadAndo: You can easily track money.
MKSheppard: noting serial numbers when they hand out cash
WeeMadAndo: All you need is a starting point.
WeeMadAndo: But the bank tellers are each giving wads of cash.
WeeMadAndo: With the serial no.s known.
WeeMadAndo: Now, they count out in a certain manner and all transactions are recorded.
WeeMadAndo: As such the banks are able to tell who got what serial No.s
MKSheppard: I have a dollar bill from 1969 that I use as a book mark
MKSheppard: You're making it sound too easy, but once the cash starts changing hands
MKSheppard: how are you going to make everyone keep accurate records?
MKSheppard: no one is going to waste hours recording every damn serial number
WeeMadAndo: You don't have to make everyone keep accurate records.
WeeMadAndo: Where do you do your grocery shopping?
MKSheppard: Shoppers
WeeMadAndo: How big is the place?
MKSheppard: big
WeeMadAndo: Are there security cameras?
MKSheppard: yes
WeeMadAndo: OK.
WeeMadAndo: Its likely that at the end of the day during count they will at least check a random sample of serial no.s. Make sure that noone is dumping counterfeits.
WeeMadAndo: The Govt, using the surveillance tapes can happily watch the cash change hands.
WeeMadAndo: Surveillance tapes of urban areas can also record similar circumstances.
MKSheppard: they don't sample serial numbers here Ando
MKSheppard: they just use pens that react chemically with the paper used in money
WeeMadAndo: If they want the Govt can say that they are looking for certain serial numbers from a robbery or some such shit.
MKSheppard: that is the hardest part to fake, our paper
MKSheppard: and how are they going to know who passed it on?
MKSheppard: you can only zoom in on one person at a time with those cameras
WeeMadAndo: They'll have tapes of you buying stuff in supermarket.
MKSheppard: along with a few THOUSAND extra people
WeeMadAndo: By eavesdropping on this conversation via ECHELON they know that you cash checks at a certain place.
WeeMadAndo: Everything, however small leaves a trail.
WeeMadAndo: All you have to be is determined and you can follow it.
MKSheppard: Then I cash checks all over the place or simply ask for cash payment
MKSheppard: how do you think we keep paying the beaners?
MKSheppard: they're illegal, so it's usually done off the books
MKSheppard: I think you're overestimating the government's powers here, Ando
MKSheppard: if they want to verify where you are going with cash
MKSheppard: they have to scan in hundreds of serial numbers
MKSheppard: which takes time
WeeMadAndo: I'm talking about what their capabilities are with the new system.
MKSheppard: as opposed to electronic records such as credit cards
MKSheppard: Fun Fact:
MKSheppard: It's estimated that 95% of all US Money has cocaine traces on it
WeeMadAndo: I never said that it wouldn't take more time.
WeeMadAndo: I happily said it would be far harder to trace than electronic transactions.
WeeMadAndo: The point remains that it can be done.
MKSheppard: What about YOUR money
MKSheppard: Doesnt it have BS anti countefeiting shit
WeeMadAndo: Our money is plastic.
WeeMadAndo: Got a whole bunch of anti-counterfeiting stuff...
WeeMadAndo: perspex windows, microprint, holograms (embedded in plastic, not stuck on)...
MKSheppard: and it's all worthless
MKSheppard: as your guys just counterfeit USD
WeeMadAndo: Just wait a few months.
WeeMadAndo: The US economy is not far from a collapse.
WeeMadAndo: Then the Euro will become the new dominant currency.
MKSheppard: Meh
MKSheppard: we'll see
MKSheppard: but what if the US economy collapses?
MKSheppard: then a dictatorship could arise and it could conquer the world
MKSheppard: TIME TO FEED THE HOGS.

[Enlightenment]

I've said it before and now I'm going to say it again. This is what happens when people put too many Republicans in office.


Alyrium Denryle: There are three universities within Toronto (University of Toronto, York University, and Ryerson Polytechnic) and at least two more big-name universities (McMaster, Waterloo) within the same general chunk of Southern Ontario.

For anyone who's seriously interested in studying or immigrating to Canada, all the information you'll need can be found at http://canadainternational.gc.ca/view-e ... 1&grp=00EB

[neoolong]

It's too Babylon 5. Now it's Nightwatch, soon they'll be passing out the armbands.

[Drewcifer]

Hey, all you Americans out there, I've got an idea. Once this office becomes official, and our E-mails start getting monitored, what say we just E-mail each other detailing false plans to bomb various cities? That way, once the Feds come to our doors, we can get the ACLU to back us up and take the office to court.

It's already been done with Echelon. There was a Jam Echelon day in 1999, but it didn't go so well.

There was another in 2001.

And from cipherwar.com:

Oct.21.2002 - There was no organized Jam Echelon Day 2002 that we at Cipherwar were aware of. It is our opinion that Echelon is a symptom of a much larger problem. It is our intention to continue educating people about Echelon, but there are still many other fish to fry.

Cipherwar is an interesting site, with many links to more Echelon information, including excerpts from the European Parliament's "Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System" report and an Echelon FAQ with sources.

Of course, you can still contribute to 'jamming Echelon'. Add parts of this list to your sig.

One creepy coincidence in the list:

> >> DES jihad fissionable quiche terrorist World Trade Center

And yes, that new logo is quite silly looking, like it's from a bad '80's movie named Mega Force FreeMasons or something like that

[Drewcifer]

If things get bad enough, I'm definitely leaving the U.S. People ignorant of history don't realize how fast a democracy such as the U.S. can turn into a repressive place, and I don't intend to wait until it's too late to leave.

Here's an idea: why don't we all pool our resources, and buy our own private island?

Vladi Private Islands

My personal fave is the 8 island Bock Cay Archipelago in the Bahamas. Over 700 acres total and only US$13,200,000!!

A collection of eight private island paradises, of which the main and largest island, Bock Cay, is fully developed to an exceptional standard and includes a main residence, a second residence, recreational building, maintenance building, various utility buildings, two wharfs and additional chattels. The seven neighbouring islands are all undeveloped and are still in their virgin pristine stage.

Woo Hoo!

[neoolong]

If things get bad enough, I'm definitely leaving the U.S. People ignorant of history don't realize how fast a democracy such as the U.S. can turn into a repressive place, and I don't intend to wait until it's too late to leave.

Here's an idea: why don't we all pool our resources, and buy our own private island?

Vladi Private Islands

My personal fave is the 8 island Bock Cay Archipelago in the Bahamas. Over 700 acres total and only US$13,200,000!!

A collection of eight private island paradises, of which the main and largest island, Bock Cay, is fully developed to an exceptional standard and includes a main residence, a second residence, recreational building, maintenance building, various utility buildings, two wharfs and additional chattels. The seven neighbouring islands are all undeveloped and are still in their virgin pristine stage.

Woo Hoo!

Only if by virgin they mean virgin women.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, loser. I was born here, grew up here, and I'll be goddamned if the place turns into a dictatorship on my watch.

You're right, you will be goddamned. You'll also be dead if you resist. Even if a significant portion of the citizens rebel, which they never would, we'd be looking at a horrible civil war which the military would ultimately win, making all the death and destruction for naught. I don't want to leave this country any more than someone else, but I'm not sticking around for that shit.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

I am not one to roll over for ANYONE, much less some hatfucker from the Fed Goobermint with a shiney badge talking big $10 dollar words about "Terrorism"


TIME TO FEED THE HOGS.

Just like the Simbianese Liberation Army didn't roll over? Oh wait, they're dead, the feds cornered them in a house and torched it on national TV to send a message. How about the guys at Wako? Oh wait, they're dead too. Ruby Ridge? The Freemen? Dead, and dead. Face it, citizens can't fight the government and live to tell about it, and you're no exception.

[Stuart Mackey]

ECHELON was set up after WW2 by the Anglo-Saxon powers, USA, Britain, Canada, Australia and NZ. it can and does poke into anything that is deemed to be of interest.
Ulitmatly, our privacy is only as good as the politians we vote into office and how well they can control the buracrats.

[Admiral Piett]

What does the line in latin say?

Knowledge is Power. (if I have not screwed something in the latin to italian to english passage)

[Admiral Piett]

.

4. Italy: Again, stagnant economy, and not a member of the EU.

Italy's government exists in name only.

SSSHHHH, do not say it to the current TV channels tycoon who acts as if he was really a prime minister.
Italy has been in the EU from the day one in anyway.

[MKSheppard]

I've said it before and now I'm going to say it again. This is what happens when people put too many Republicans in office.

And what about the Democratic Party? In 1934, Folks, FDR
outlawed the private ownership of GOLD in the US.

[Stravo]

I've said it before and now I'm going to say it again. This is what happens when people put too many Republicans in office.

And what about the Democratic Party? In 1934, Folks, FDR
outlawed the private ownership of GOLD in the US.

Not only that but he tried to pack the Supreme Court with more justices because the Court kept striking down some of his New Deal policies as Unconsitutional. Imagine the uproar today if Bush Jr. tried to change the laws around to put more justices in the court to create a more conservative friendly court for some of his programs? Yet history rarely teaches us these little foibles in the New Deal and the beloved FDR. He was a politician first before he was a humanatarian or any other great label you would smack on the man. Let's not start flinging things around about the paries because they both have unclean hands.