The Big One

[Shaidar Haran]

That's actually an issue that comes up in an impending chapter. By the way, wolfen have a problem looking beyond the next few days, let alone the next few years.

Then how is it that they survive? It's one thing to be short sighted, another to be totally blind. I mean they've got to be a spectacular mess when it comes to society with a mentality like that. Unless of course they're dosed up the wazhoo with Ritalin or something?

[Stuart]

Then how is it that they survive? It's one thing to be short sighted, another to be totally blind. I mean they've got to be a spectacular mess when it comes to society with a mentality like that.

The Wolfen are conceived as being mercurial, capricious, horrendously insensitive and quite incapable of thinking long term. To some extent, that's balanced by their ability to concentrate intensely on what is happening at a given moment. Their limitation isn't so much they can't think long-term, its more that the effort involved bores them. They are a representation of the trend in modern society of people who want what they want and they want it now. The sort of people who, if they had a credit card would run it up to the limit in a week or two and not think about how they were going to pay off the balance.

As to being a spectacular mess in society; no more so than other people who act impulsively without thinking through the consequences of their actions.

[acesand8s]

Interstellar Highway Four

[Symmetry]

This may be a bit off topic, but I don't think it goes any farther afield than discussions of the fiery demises of our home towns so here goes.

I was recently following some discussion whether the US should develop those new small burrowing nukes. In thinking of how they could be employed, what really stuck out at me was that if we're ever going to get into a war with N Korea we would need something like that to take out the N Korean artillery unites burried under the hills around Seol. If you are able to say, do you think this is the most likely intended use for them? Is there any other wisdom you could impart regarding the N Korea situation that's being so poorly covered in the news?

Its always interesting to see the number of people who think "Gee, I'm OK, there's nothing in my town anybody would want to nuke" while standing on the edge of [...] a gas distribution system nexus.

There goes Portland, Maine. Most of Ontario's gas comes through there. I'm currently studying just across the river from Boston, so I'm pretty unhappy either way.

[MKSheppard]

Their limitation isn't so much they can't think long-term, its more that the effort involved bores them. They are a representation of the trend in modern society of people who want what they want and they want it now.

Then how is it that Soo is on a SAC bomber? I'd imagine crew training for
SAC is just as stringent as it was back in the 1950s under LeMay. You'd have
to be capable of at least thinking long term and concentrating in order to get
certified as a DSB-36 crewman...

[Stuart]

Then how is it that Soo is on a SAC bomber? I'd imagine crew training for SAC is just as stringent as it was back in the 1950s under LeMay. You'd have to be capable of at least thinking long term and concentrating in order to get certified as a DSB-36 crewman.

Beacuse she's extremely good at situations where a lot of things need to be done quickly, where decisions have to be made fast and where physical strength and good reactions are necessary. Note the division of labor in the cockpit. Williams handles the attack system where he has to plan attacks and carry out the tactics. Soo handles defensive systems where she doesn't know what's going to happen until it happens but when it does, she has to limit the damage and undertake corrective measures fast.

On the other hand, its unlikely she'd ever be promoted to high command, but then the inherent lack of foresight means she probably isn't too interested in a far-off future career; she's much more concerned with enjoying what's happening now.

[Stuart]

I was recently following some discussion whether the US should develop those new small burrowing nukes. In thinking of how they could be employed, what really stuck out at me was that if we're ever going to get into a war with N Korea we would need something like that to take out the N Korean artillery unites burried under the hills around Seol. If you are able to say, do you think this is the most likely intended use for them? Is there any other wisdom you could impart regarding the N Korea situation that's being so poorly covered in the news?

There's a lot going on behind this one that isn't making the press. Basically, the coverage is either "Ohmigod we're all doomed" or "Ahh don't worry." Neither of which is terribly helpful.

We do know that North Korea has around four to eight nuclear devices. These are probably gun-configuration systems which makes them inherently unsuited to missile warheads. The good news is that a gun-configuration is very inefficient so its yield is going to be limited. On the other hand, even an inefficient nuke will do a lot of damage (ask Hiroshima). The Norks have a few aircraft that can be used for delivery; my bet is they would probably use a MiG23BN for the job. They also have Il-28s but they are so slow and vulnerable I don't take them too seriously. Anyway they serve as torpedo-bombers at the moment. Assuming the assumption that the existing devices are gun-configuration, they can't be used as artillery shells either. Aircraft delivery is it.

In the absence of a test, we can assume that Norks haven't got an implosion configuration device yet. The reason we can make that assumption is that gun-configurations are so simple they can't go wrong. The only people who have ever built a gun-configuration that fizzled are the Pakistanis. An implosion device is much more complex and has to be tested. An implosion configuration that fizzles is disturbingly frequent; it happens to the best of us now and then. Once the device is proved, no problem but a new configuration must be tested.

So, we don't have to worry about an implosion device yet. That could change any time without notice but not yet. That means we don't have to worry about missile warheads or artillery shells ...... yet. Again, that could change tomorrow. Once the Norks have a workable implosion configuration then we're in a different world.

The real trouble is that we're out of viable options now. Thank's to that moron Clinton and the idiot agreement he "negotiated" back in '94 (I have jis cheif negotiator's memoirs. Called "Disarming Strangers" its a paen of praise to Clinton's "non-confrontational approach" that meant the author's son "will not have to face the threat of North Korean Nuclear weapons".

Quite.

Anyway, that's water under the bridge and we're stuck with it. The situation is that we're facing a situation of a country that's falling apart at the seams and ius run by a clique that cares for nothing but its own survival. If we leave them alone, we are likely to face a heavily nuclear-armed country that has a use-them-or-lose-them approach and no restraints on how it uses them. If we invade NK, we face a dreadful campaign of digging them out of their underground bunkers. If we nuke them into oblivion, then we're going to contaminate half the Far East with fallout. Not the way to win friends and influence people.

That's the worst case scenario in each. Best case isn't quite so dismal. Fact remains, we're still stuck without viable options. That's a bad place to be. The government is effectively playing poker with a handful of garbage against an opponent renowned for kicking over the table and changing the rules. That said, the Bush Admin is handling things pretty skillfully. What they're trying to do is create some additional options, primarily by playing the one card they have that's worth something - China.

Oh, the tunneling nukes? Nothing wrong with them; they're a useful tool for certain jobs. One of them might be taking out a really deep bunker in North Korea that holds Dear Leader. Decapitate the country and we've just kicked the table over and changed the rules (GWB is good at that). Who knows? We might do the whole world a favor and take out Kim Jong-Il's hairdresser as well.

[MKSheppard]

Oh, the tunneling nukes? Nothing wrong with them; they're a useful tool for certain jobs. One of them might be taking out a really deep bunker in North Korea that holds Dear Leader.

That's the problem, how do we know WHICH bunker
holds Dear Leader? Paranoid dictators in Stalinist
states tend to be rather secretive; Saddam particularly
loved to move around Baghdad, kicking people out of
their houses for the night for meetings and suchlike....

[Stuart]

That's the problem, how do we know WHICH bunker holds Dear Leader? Paranoid dictators in Stalinist states tend to be rather secretive; Saddam particularly loved to move around Baghdad, kicking people out of their houses for the night for meetings and suchlike.

We don't, that's the problem. Now, there are answers to that question that involve the use of a variety of national technical assets but they are not reliable. Remember, Iraqi Freedom kicked off three days early because we got intelligence that absolutely confirmed Saddam Hussein and his sons were at a specific spot at a specific time. Later, we put four 2,000 pound LGBs into a restaurant for more or less the same reason. Both cases we missed (although I am reliably informed that the restaurant that got blown up served a Kobeba Samakeyah that could only be described as a crime against humanity).

The most likely bet is some sort of set-up where there is a group who are internal to Nork that can point us to the right place. A coup is unlikely (though not impossible) due to the efficiency of the Nork security system. However, pointing a US bomber at the right place may well be possible. The problem with Nork is that we don't have internal options to play with; I suspect GWB and his crew are trying to buy time while we create them

[Zed Snardbody]

How does one fuck up a gun type weapon. As I understand the concept, its two halves of u235 and a but load of explosives to squish'em together.

How do you screw that up?

[Burak Gazan]

How does one fuck up a gun type weapon. As I understand the concept, its two halves of u235 and a but load of explosives to squish'em together.

How do you screw that up?

It is a mystery, but kudos to the Paks for pulling it off

[Stuart]

How does one fuck up a gun type weapon. As I understand the concept, its two halves of u235 and a but load of explosives to squish'em together. How do you screw that up?

A gun-configuration weapon isn't quite as simple as it sounds. Almost as simple, but not quite. Its basically a three-inch naval gun barrel with the slug of fissile at the breech end, and the fissile target at the barrel end. Fire the gun, the slug goes shooting down the barrel and whammy. Few ideas what could go wrong.

One is they forgot to evacuate the barrel of the gun. Because the barrel is sealed at both ends, there has to be a vacuum inside the bore. Otherwise the air inside acts as a piston and either blows the fissile target at the other end apart or slows down and then stops the projectile slug of fissile half way down the barrel. Even slowing down the projectile will do it; the projectile and target have to merge within a very short time (dependent upon the degree of enrichment of the fissile) for fission to occur.

Another is they forgot to put the polonium initiator in.

Another is the target and the projectile were the wrong shape - they have to be specific shape for the thing to work.

However they did it, they managed a unique achievement. There are a few people who would like to buy the designer a drink in recognition of his achievement before we take him outside and hang him.

[CaptainChewbacca]

The Eye of Odin

Enjoy it!

[Crayz9000]

Hmph. Nobody's posted a link yet, though most have probably read it already.

Anvil of Necessity -- Three

[Mayabird]

I'm trying to remember if it was mentioned or not, but when exactly did the Seer and his companions move to the Americas? He was definately helping the Union side in the Civil War, and when Odin and Loki were talking they said that he moved to Virginia, not the United States, hinting that it was before the United States was formed. Was he helping out the Revolutionary cause also?

[CaptainChewbacca]

I'm not sure, but I think the Seer and his crew relocated around 1800 from England.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

Anvil of Necessity - Four

[MKSheppard]

Germania Delenda Est One

[Crayz9000]

Four Jugs of Wine

[Mayabird]

Wow, the stories are just being cranked out fast, aren't they? Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
<line 2>

[Grand Moff Tim]

Anvil of Necessity - Five

[Stuart]

I'm trying to remember if it was mentioned or not, but when exactly did the Seer and his companions move to the Americas? He was definately helping the Union side in the Civil War, and when Odin and Loki were talking they said that he moved to Virginia, not the United States, hinting that it was before the United States was formed. Was he helping out the Revolutionary cause also?

My apologies Mayabird, I missed this somehow. Please excuse the delay in replying; no offense meant.

The Seer and his inner circle moved from Renaissance Italy to the UK after the Restoration that ended the rule of the Cromwellian military regime and the ascension of Charles II. In the 1720s, they masterminded a thing called the South Sea Bubble which was the first really great stock market scam. It was basically a pump-and-dump scheme intended to refill their coffers that were a bit depleted by the move from Italy to the UK. Unfortunately it got out of control and ended up impoverishing most of the British Aristocracy and emerging middle class. Aftera few years, some people investigating the scandal started to put two and two together and the UK started to get a little hot.

By the mid-1730s, the Seer and his (now quite wealthy) circle left the UK and set up in Williamsburg, Virginia. They lived there quite happily (staying as far away from the frontier as they could) until the 1770s and the War of Independence. They took the Colonial side in that war while making sure they were well-positioned in the illegal trading that was going on. As a result, when the War of Independence ended, they were extremely well off and in good standing with the new Government. (One of the signatories of the Declaration of Independence is a Demon; I won't say which one - yet).

Come the Civil War, they headed North and sided with the Union. The Seer teamed up with Grant quite early (the Seer isn't actually that good a General; he's a strategist. He's at his best when teamed up with a good fighting general like Grant or Sherman. The Seer sets up the battles and his partner fights them.) The ladies mostly stayed out of things although a few untimely deaths of leading Confederates from "sickness" have Naamah's poisoning hands behind them.

Post Civil War, they stayed North. They still have property down in Virginia although they mostly live around Washington these days.

[Ace Pace]

Side note, any mod\thread starter up to updating the OP with the newest fics? Kinda hard to keep track.

[Zed Snardbody]

Oh I do love when he teases.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Can we start a betting pool? My money is on Hancock, but I'm gonna see which could have "died mysteriously" in a faked death. Of course, some were executed.