Maddox Trashes RotS

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-05-31 11:59pm

Badme wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: But his critiques of the plot can't be any dumber than the usual fare from more "respected" critics. The most common criticism of ROTS is "I didn't buy Anakin's change to the Dark Side at all". Can you imagine if some fucktard said "I didn't buy Frodo's evil turn at all; you take some guy to a mountain and deprive him of food and water for a while, and suddenly he's evil?" Of course, LOTR fans would immediately slag him for being too stupid to figure out that it was the influence of the Ring.
That's not a very apt analogy. Frodo underwent an observable, gradual change because of the Ring. Anakin didn't; remember what he did right before he turned? He betrayed Palpatine over to the Jedi council, rejecting the Sith. Even during the fight, he didn't wholly give in: he didn't kill Mace, but just prevented him from killing Palpatine. The best rationalization, of course, is that Anakin's corruption was also gradual, but just very behind-the-scenes. After all, Palpatine knew him for a period of 12 years, so he had every opportunity to subtly nudge him towards the Dark Side. It's still far too sudden a change to completely accept this conclusion, though. If he's being secretly mind-fucked by the Dark Lord of the Sith for years, then why does he reject him, not hours before he falls to the Dark Side? I understand that's how the Dark Side works in SOD, but non SOD, it's still shoddy writing.

Why does he reject him? Because Anakin is very clearly confused as all hell.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-06-01 12:10am

Badme wrote:That's not a very apt analogy. Frodo underwent an observable, gradual change because of the Ring.

Yeah, he went from happy to nervous, to nervous, to tired, to weak, to tired, to weak, to tired, to paranoid, back to tired, and then to ... EVIL!!!!!!

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-06-01 02:50am

Castor Troy wrote:
Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:I thought he would find the slaughtering of the kids funny, and I sure did.
What's funny is that my friends and I all said that that was our favorite part of the movie, even laughing about how awesome it was, when my shocked wife asked "What is so funny about little kids dying?"

We couldn't come up with an answer.
Just say that it's all entertainment, and the word "younglings" is just plain silly.

Besides, it's just funny, I guess, no real reasons there.

I too would like to have the humor of that scene explained to me.

Are you guys on crack or something?

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-06-01 02:52am

Badme wrote:That's not a very apt analogy. Frodo underwent an observable, gradual change because of the Ring. Anakin didn't; remember what he did right before he turned? He betrayed Palpatine over to the Jedi council, rejecting the Sith. Even during the fight, he didn't wholly give in: he didn't kill Mace, but just prevented him from killing Palpatine. The best rationalization, of course, is that Anakin's corruption was also gradual, but just very behind-the-scenes. After all, Palpatine knew him for a period of 12 years, so he had every opportunity to subtly nudge him towards the Dark Side. It's still far too sudden a change to completely accept this conclusion, though. If he's being secretly mind-fucked by the Dark Lord of the Sith for years, then why does he reject him, not hours before he falls to the Dark Side? I understand that's how the Dark Side works in SOD, but non SOD, it's still shoddy writing.

Frankly, I found Anakin's assholery begin quite early. He was bitching about Obi-Wan "holding him back", giving in to jealousy and paranoia even in AOTC.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-06-01 03:16am

I hope you guys all realize that the hating-everything, self-absorbed Maddox is more or less an online persona. He admits on his site that he doesn't really care about most of the things he bashes.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-06-01 03:22am

HemlockGrey wrote:I hope you guys all realize that the hating-everything, self-absorbed Maddox is more or less an online persona. He admits on his site that he doesn't really care about most of the things he bashes.

That he does, though it doesn't make a difference to the outcome (meaning the content of the articles he writes). The RotS review was still stupid and his response to criticism is still mainly to mock his opponents' spelling.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-06-01 05:34am

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:I thought he would find the slaughtering of the kids funny, and I sure did.
What's funny is that my friends and I all said that that was our favorite part of the movie, even laughing about how awesome it was, when my shocked wife asked "What is so funny about little kids dying?"

We couldn't come up with an answer.

"We are evil"?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-01 05:42am

HemlockGrey wrote:I hope you guys all realize that the hating-everything, self-absorbed Maddox is more or less an online persona. He admits on his site that he doesn't really care about most of the things he bashes.

"Oh, so he's only pretending to be a jerk asshole."

That just glosses over the fact that he's not very funny, anyway.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-06-01 05:45am

I've only seen ROTS once so far, but those of you that plan on seeing it again, watch Anakin's reactions just before and during his acceptance of the mantle, Darth Vader. He looks confused, while the Emperor smiles.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-06-01 05:49am

That just glosses over the fact that he's not very funny, anyway.

Well, you obviously don't think so, and that's fine. But he cracks me up nearly every time.

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2005-06-01 09:02am

Damnit, Maddox was less funny than I expected him to be. His other "reviews" tend to be great but this time it seems like he's holding back.

Maybe he actually secretly liked this movie...

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-06-01 09:57am

Galvatron wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
Galvatron wrote:I think he made some pretty good points.
Such as?
I particularly enjoyed his assessment of the "it's for kids" apologia and the "vacant-looking actors" line.

The "it's for kids" stuff applied to the first two movies. I don't know why Maddox had such a difficult time grasping that, but he did.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-06-01 10:51am

I'm surprised no one picked this out:

Maddox wrote:xxx,xxx dipshits camped out in line for this movie only to realize that it sucks like the other 5.

Maybe Maddox just doesn't like SW in general.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-06-01 12:03pm

McC wrote:I'm surprised no one picked this out:

Maddox wrote:xxx,xxx dipshits camped out in line for this movie only to realize that it sucks like the other 5.
Maybe Maddox just doesn't like SW in general.

"Look at me! I'm cynical and hate popular stuff!"

Yippee. *shrugs*

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-06-01 12:04pm

Maddox wrote:Yes, that's right. The entire reason Anakin switched to the dark side becomes unraveled when he tries to kill Padme, who was the reason he switched to the dark side to begin with. Oops! Of course, Star Wars apologists will try to point out that Anakin was already under the influence of the "dark side" at this point. So that's why the first thing he asks as Darth Vader is whether Padme is safe, right you morons?

This "now I hate you and want to kill you, now I love you and would do anything for you" duality IS actually realistic. Brought back memories for me, it did.

Well, I guess at least it shows that Maddox isn't abusive/hasn't been abused.

JediMaster415 · Post by **JediMaster415** » 2005-06-01 12:39pm

Lord Poe wrote:I've only seen ROTS once so far, but those of you that plan on seeing it again, watch Anakin's reactions just before and during his acceptance of the mantle, Darth Vader. He looks confused, while the Emperor smiles.

I always figured he looked confused and ashamed about what he's done and doing. At one point during his 'Knighting', he turns his face away from Palpatine and just generally like he doesn't want to be there but he felt that he was too far gone to try being a Jedi again. That's my take on that entire scene.

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-06-01 12:52pm

Well, Vader certainly struck me as someone who was evil because he believed that he was unredeemable.

He's so happy at the end of ROTJ when he discovers that he actually does have some good in himself (well, as happy as a dying cyborg can be anyway). I think it's a real shock to him.

Grasscutter · Post by **Grasscutter** » 2005-06-01 12:59pm

My favorite panel in the VGCats comic was the "love scene". Come on, even the most ardent defenders of Episode III have to admit the romantic dialogue was clunky.

I'm one of those people who feel the turn was a leeeetle too quick. A few more lines on Palpatine's part reminding Anakin what he stands to gain and lose would've helped immensely. Especially in the scene when Anakin executes Dooku, which essentially went:

Palpatine: "Kill him."
Anakin: "No, that violates the tenants of the Jedi Order, which I have spent most of my life upholding."
Palpatine: "C'mon, do it!"
Anakin: "Okay!"

If Anakin's going to have inner conflict over violating the Jedi code, please have the master manipulator come up with a better argument than "do it."

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-01 01:01pm

Grasscutter wrote:My favorite panel in the VGCats comic was the "love scene". Come on, even the most ardent defenders of Episode III have to admit the romantic dialogue was clunky.

Not really. Actually not at all, I thought.

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-06-01 01:03pm

Vader's always had someone telling him what to do.

Throughout ANH, he practically was Tarkin's lapdog.

Strong willed doesn't necessarily mean you won't do as you're told. If you respect someone enough, and they've been manipulating you to do as they wish for 12 years, then you'll probably do as they say.

Aki-Wan Hanabi · Post by **Aki-Wan Hanabi** » 2005-06-01 01:53pm

Did I miss something, or does this "guy" really LIKE movies where children are HURT?

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2005-06-01 01:53pm

Maddox wrote:xxx,xxx dipshits camped out in line for this movie only to realize that it sucks like the other 5.
"Look at me! I'm cynical and hate popular stuff!"

Yippee. *shrugs*

If he bashes stuff nobody knows about then people won't get the joke. In order to be funny to a large audience he must make fun of something popular or well known.

This "now I hate you and want to kill you, now I love you and would do anything for you" duality IS actually realistic. Brought back memories for me, it did.

Reminds me of my little sister. Sometimes she loves me and won't unwrap her arms from my torso. Other times she is a screaming devil who will tear the flesh from my bones if she managed to catch-up to me (this is, of course, exageration: though she might say otherwise, my sister would never cause serious harm on purpose).

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-06-01 01:56pm

If he bashes stuff nobody knows about then people won't get the joke. In order to be funny to a large audience he must make fun of something popular or well known.

Only problem with that is SW bashing is so boring these days, I´d qualify it as lazy comedy.

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-06-01 02:14pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:
This "now I hate you and want to kill you, now I love you and would do anything for you" duality IS actually realistic. Brought back memories for me, it did.
Reminds me of my little sister. Sometimes she loves me and won't unwrap her arms from my torso. Other times she is a screaming devil who will tear the flesh from my bones if she managed to catch-up to me (this is, of course, exageration: though she might say otherwise, my sister would never cause serious harm on purpose).

I was thinking of my ex-boyfriend. The choking when he was angry and then being sorry for it immediately afterwards was very him.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-06-01 03:38pm

Grasscutter wrote:My favorite panel in the VGCats comic was the "love scene". Come on, even the most ardent defenders of Episode III have to admit the romantic dialogue was clunky.

The bit about the handicap parking was the best bit.

Grasscutter wrote:I'm one of those people who feel the turn was a leeeetle too quick. A few more lines on Palpatine's part reminding Anakin what he stands to gain and lose would've helped immensely. Especially in the scene when Anakin executes Dooku, which essentially went:

Palpatine: "Kill him."
Anakin: "No, that violates the tenants of the Jedi Order, which I have spent most of my life upholding."
Palpatine: "C'mon, do it!"
Anakin: "Okay!"

If Anakin's going to have inner conflict over violating the Jedi code, please have the master manipulator come up with a better argument than "do it."

You know, as I pointed out earlier, the turning began way back in RotS. Hell, Yoda even sensed the potential for evil when he was a snotty nosed little brat in TPM. When Anakin executed Dooku it is just another step in a looong journey downhill. It wasn't meant to indicate the turning point, it was meant to indicate how far he had gone already. That's the vibe I got anyway.