Your views on the pope

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-05-31 09:39pm

I've always wanted to know what people thought about the pope. So go ahead, tell me what you think.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-31 09:53pm

Good god a'mighty, what a flamefest the last round of discussions on the Pope turned out to be...

My take? He presided over an immoral institution that screwed over a lot of people. All the gabble about institutional politics aside, he may not have been able to change anything, but he certainly had the choice not to be a participant.

*scoots back a safe distance and gets out sunglasses*

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-05-31 09:56pm

Ah, there has been a pope discussion, has there? Bloody hell. But your views are eloquent, and probably right.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-31 10:05pm

Ford Prefect wrote:Ah, there has been a pope discussion, has there? Bloody hell. But your views are eloquent, and probably right.

Yeah, board search is disabled or I'd point you at it.

Oh, wait, just realized you were probably referring to the current Pope, Benedict the Whatever. Still takes a moment for me to realize that JP Deuce isn't rambling around anymore.

Lessee... while there was some dissent over JP Deuce's place in history, the reviews from the assembled on the RatPope were pretty damned uniformly negative. More of the same from the reign of JP Deuce, if not worse.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-05-31 10:11pm

JP Duece, what a great name.

Yeah, Benny doesn't look like he'll be doing a great job anytime soon. Although he does speak a heap of languages. At least here no one will be stupid enough to call him a Nazi.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-05-31 10:18pm

The Nazi thing never gets old.

Really, Benny hasn't done enough for us to know much, but he's old, conservative, and wears a giant penis-shaped hat. How good can he be? Unlike JP, we might be taking a serious step backward with this guy. JP sort've left stuff at status quo (though at that time, status quo involved chid-rapers

).

I think we'll start to see American Catholics gradually fall away from the Church as Rat-man starts being more aggressive with his anti-gay, anti-condom, anti-divorce rhetoric. The latter two will be especially crushing.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-05-31 10:28pm

Ugh, I know. The Vatican was pretty hardline before, but with God's Doberman on the loose, the word hardline will take on a new meaning, albeit one that is practically identical to today's.

I mean, I'd hate it if the new pope actually believed in Genesis. Then where would we be at?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2005-05-31 10:39pm

old pope or new pope?

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-05-31 10:53pm

Which one, JP II or Benedict XVI?

As for Benedict XVI, we really don't have too much on him to make a sound judgement.

As for JP II, he sometimes did the wrong thing, but did it out of benefit for the people.

That's my take on it, at least...

*shrugs*

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-31 11:06pm

Castor Troy wrote:Which one, JP II or Benedict XVI?

As for Benedict XVI, we really don't have too much on him to make a sound judgement.

As for JP II, he sometimes did the wrong thing, but did it out of benefit for the people.

That's my take on it, at least...

*shrugs*

Allowing scumsucking pedophiles to get away and not punishing those who aided and abetted them was for the benefit of the people?

Blanket condemnation of birth control, for the benefit of the people?

Condemnation of homosexuality as some sort of sin, for the benefit of the people?

Sorry Castor, it doesn't wash.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-05-31 11:09pm

The most you could say is that he wasn't too hardline about it (though I would argue that a hardline stance against pedophilia is the only justifiable one).

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-05-31 11:17pm

Well, I did say that he did mess up here and there, but yeah, I agree, his actions against these pedophiles was not enough. As they have performed an act against secular law, they should be subject to secular law. They also should be punished by religious law, as they also commited an act against religious law.

Please, don't take me for another brainwashed apologist. I, as much as the next person, despise pedophiles with a passion. Perhaps I should be pope, eh?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-05-31 11:18pm

Castor Troy wrote:Which one, JP II or Benedict XVI?

As for Benedict XVI, we really don't have too much on him to make a sound judgement.

This is such a flatly wrong statement I don't have the time to construct the manner of insolence it deserves. So I'll skip to the meat.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. This man is a staple of the Vatican. He's an institution. He's been there a while, done lots of plenty public things. Like: Insisting pedophilia is American. So don't do anything about the pedos. Don't change anything. Be ultra-conservative. He's a hardliner among hardliners, in a time of needed reform. Heh.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-05-31 11:21pm

Perhaps I should clarify. I don't agree with all that he did, I'm not some brainwashed idiot. And yes, I want to see changes in the Church.

You guys have a point though, and I don't know much about the history on JP II too much.

So, nevermind what I initially said about JP II, then.

On the other hand, I don't want to jump the gun too quickly, so I really don't know which side to turn to.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-31 11:26pm

Castor Troy wrote:Well, I did say that he did mess up here and there, but yeah, I agree, his actions against these pedophiles was not enough. As they have performed an act against secular law, they should be subject to secular law. They also should be punished by religious law, as they also commited an act against religious law.

Please, don't take me for another brainwashed apologist. I, as much as the next person, despise pedophiles with a passion. Perhaps I should be pope, eh?

It transcends 'messing up', man. Take this as a thought exercise to go beyond your affiliation with the institution- what would you say about the president of a secular charity who delivered the same rhetoric and engaged in the same activity?

If the head of the United Way allowed a coverup of pedophilia among members of the organization, who were then shuffled to new posts, what would your opinion be?

Whether you recognize it or not, you are conditioned by your upbringing, with regards to the church. The essential righteousness of the Catholic hierarchy has been drilled into you since you were a child, if you were raised Catholic. And that's what allows you to reconcile the notion of a man who could have moved against pedophiles with the vision that he was essentially a good person.

Castor Troy · Post by **Castor Troy** » 2005-05-31 11:27pm

Yeah, I see your point now.

Sorry for being an apologist, guys. My bad.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-05-31 11:29pm

Castor Troy wrote:Perhaps I should clarify. I don't agree with all that he did, I'm not some brainwashed idiot. And yes, I want to see changes in the Church.

You guys have a point though, and I don't know much about the history on JP II too much.

So, nevermind what I initially said about JP II, then.

On the other hand, I don't want to jump the gun too quickly, so I really don't know which side to turn to.

If you consider yourself to be a true Catholic, now might be a good time to really start digging around into what the real history of the church is, and the behavior and histories of its leadership.

Admission of ignorance is a mature trait, but just as John Paul made his choice to stand by heinous corruption, you have to choose what you stand by as well.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-05-31 11:50pm

Wasn't it JP numba two who said something like, "God gave us the ability to be stupid"?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-06-01 12:08am

Well, he was the Pope. He did believe that we were the ultimate culmination of God's work. Did he believe that the Earth was made in seven days? No. Is this completely off topic? Yes.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had said it, to the truth. Johnny always seemed to me as a little weird.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2005-06-01 02:29am

Hello new Pope, same as (if not worse) the old Pope.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2005-06-01 02:39am

He has a cool hat. Other than that, I don't give a fuck.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-06-01 02:40am

The Cleric wrote:He has a cool hat. Other than that, I don't give a fuck.

Yeah! Hats rock, nicely stated.

Post by **Dalton** » 2005-06-01 03:21am

The pope. A leader who should be powerless, heading up an archaic institution that is one of the most powerful and widespread entities on the planet.

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-06-01 03:27am

SirNitram wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:Which one, JP II or Benedict XVI?

As for Benedict XVI, we really don't have too much on him to make a sound judgement.
This is such a flatly wrong statement I don't have the time to construct the manner of insolence it deserves. So I'll skip to the meat.

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. This man is a staple of the Vatican. He's an institution. He's been there a while, done lots of plenty public things. Like: Insisting pedophilia is American. So don't do anything about the pedos. Don't change anything. Be ultra-conservative. He's a hardliner among hardliners, in a time of needed reform. Heh.

Including the stance against contraceptives as a tool to fight AIDS and a bigoted position on homosexuals. The latter issue has already been in the spotlight since his ascendancy.

Melchior · Post by **Melchior** » 2005-06-01 05:24am

The new Pope already proved his contempt for democracy with his enduring sabotage of the 12/6 referendum.