Ace Pace wrote:
Not sure of that, most 3-4th graders I know won't be able to grasp many concepts in algebra.
Thats because most of them havent been taught. The stuff is utterly fucking trivial.
Thats true, I can attest to that myself, in fourth/fifth grade we got an "expermental" teacher, one the school board let do what he want(A triple master's degree and former proffesor can get away with alot)
Everything he taught(Sans history) was hands on, if it was time for science, it was time for an experment, if it was time for math, lets do an acutal phyiscal problem.
One of the end results of this was at the end of the year the entire class took the tenth grade state algerbra exam(In fourth grade mind you) and over eight percent of the class passed it. Several students passed with a 90 or above.
Pretty good for fourth graders
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Thats actully very impressive, but you show the problem with it... only eight percent passed, while this was a 10th grade test, it still shows its a complex concept, 6th grade I could understand, but 4th, you should be doing fractions, not algebra.
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Third graders mostly do multiplication, division, and simple fractions. IIRC, fourth grade is more fractions and introduction to exponents in most school districts. Those are good, reasonably difficult concepts that have to be mastered, but they're not something that requires an entire year to teach.
The reason why schools move so slowly, though, is that they need to cater to the dumbest kids in the class, who NEED to spend a third or even a half of classtime reviewing stuff from the year before. That's why it's so important to actually flunk and hold back students, irregardless of how it affects their "personal development." Letting them pass damages everybody else.
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Master of Ossus wrote:Third graders mostly do multiplication, division, and simple fractions. IIRC, fourth grade is more fractions and introduction to exponents in most school districts. Those are good, reasonably difficult concepts that have to be mastered, but they're not something that requires an entire year to teach.
The reason why schools move so slowly, though, is that they need to cater to the dumbest kids in the class, who NEED to spend a third or even a half of classtime reviewing stuff from the year before. That's why it's so important to actually flunk and hold back students, irregardless of how it affects their "personal development." Letting them pass damages everybody else.
I've spoken to teachers who defend this practice, by saying that "the smart kids can take care of themselves" so there's no need to cater to their needs at all and they should only concern themselves with the slow kids. I wish I was making this up.
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Darth Wong wrote:I've spoken to teachers who defend this practice, by saying that "the smart kids can take care of themselves" so there's no need to cater to their needs at all and they should only concern themselves with the slow kids. I wish I was making this up.
That attitude just causes more problems later on, because it teaches the smart kids lazy study habits which is really going to bite them in the arse when they start on the more difficult stuff where you really need to apply yourself and actually work to understand the things being taught.
Things aren't quite that bad here, but there's still enough of it to be a problem. I've been pretty open about my personal failures education wise, and a big part of it was caused by exactly this thing. I learned bad study habits because there was never a true challenge before I hit engineering school (except the last courses in advanced math and physics in high school). By that time, the bad habits coupled with my innate tendency toward laziness had done enough damage to significantly contribute to the wreck I eventually made of things.
Persoanl responsibility ultimately rests with the student, especially when they are old enough that they know or should know better, but this kind of negligence at the early stage when they don't borders on the criminal in some respects.
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Kids are definitely least likely to motivate themselves, unless they're genuinely interested in a subject. In elementary school, studying for tests was unknown to me, and even in high school, I never crammed (except for finals). Consequently, I was screwed over in math, which I never liked anyways.
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