EU: Kyle Katarn

[Robert Walper]

Blah! I'm on cable, but assume you're not on a fast connection. Oh well. Perhaps next time.

I'm on DSL, but overseas latency is still just that. If I was on modem, it'd be even worse (and yes, I tried that in my modem days).

Well, if you're ever up for trying a game anyhow, let me know. If you send a PM, include a way I can contact you, since my PM ability has been restricted.

[Coriolis]

Quick question: Wasn't Katarn the guy who picked up the lightsaber and could somehow use the force?

[Ace Pace]

What? Younglings in the NJO?

ARRGH.

Wrong name AFAIK, their just called children or padawans or something like that.

[Drunk Monkey]

Quick question: Wasn't Katarn the guy who picked up the lightsaber and could somehow use the force?

Yes there was a Jedi that was a friend of his fathers, contacted him through the grave and taught him the force.

[Cykeisme]

Here's some stat blocks for Dark Forces characters, meant for the new Wizards RPG.. they're also a handy place to pick up some background on the characters if you're unfamiliar with the games.

http://www.wizards.com/starwars/article ... tarn&c=rpg
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=st ... w20050407a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=st ... w20050407b


Absorb + Protect gave a light Jedi beastly defensive capabilities in JA, but Dark Rage worked nicely in lightsaber combat against tough opponents. It's possible to kill almost anything (except bosses) in a single bout of rage.
I also like how lightning has incredible knockback on its victims.. you can send a whole squad of stormtroopers flying twenty feet back with a two-handed blast of lightning. Not to mention grabbing people by the neck to Drain them...

Only two? Luke took TWELVE originally

*twitch*

[Noble Ire]

Praxis wrote:
Only two? Luke took TWELVE originally
*twitch*

Its comparable to Yoda teaching the younglings. He was the only known trained Jedi left in the galaxy, so it was only natural that he would have to take on a lot adepts of adepts.

[NecronLord]

Wrong name AFAIK, their just called children or padawans or something like that.

It's not the name. It's the idea. It's a questionably-moral concept I thought the NJO did not practice, both for its dubious morals (Brainwashing, deliberately bringing children into danger etc) and the fact that it is a contributing factor to the jedi-inflexibility that caused the rise of the Sith in Sidious.

Teenagers, as in the 'young jedi knights' books, I can live with, especially when they have healthy parental relationships, but the practice of taking and isolating younglings destroyed the Old Jedi Order. The NJO should not fucking do it, or they will all die to the next revolutionary Sith/Dark Sider that comes along.

[Cykeisme]

As an individual, I can't say I like the idea of raising young beings, almost from birth, in the Order, but how do you attribute their downfall to it? The one case where it screwed up seriously was with Anakin, and if anything, tiat's because he came in too late.

For one thing, bringing in people who are already teenagers risks their already having developed negative agendas, idiosyncracies, intentions, whatever.

For another, it's possible that after a person reaches a certain age, it becomes no longer possible to train them to use the Force. Recall that Anakin and Luke were exceptional.
I suppose the authors can change this "fact" if the they required it, though, and have all sorts of people picking up Force skills late in life. I mean, every other person in the EU is Force sensitive after all..

Its comparable to Yoda teaching the younglings. He was the only known trained Jedi left in the galaxy, so it was only natural that he would have to take on a lot adepts of adepts.

True.. Luke's twelve apprentices weren't younglings.
Ignoring what happened in the EU and going back to the end of RotJ, I don't think Luke should have rushed reforming the Jedi Order by trying to rapidly inflate its ranks. It massively increases the risk of having students fall to the Dark Side.

[NecronLord]

Quick question: Wasn't Katarn the guy who picked up the lightsaber and could somehow use the force?

Partly with the assistance of a deceased Jedi Master called Rahn, who presumably learnt Qui Gon's teachings from Yoda during a brief visit to Dagobah, and presumably knew Bail Organa, and a quasi-holocronesque journal Rhan created to pass on his knowledge after the Jedi Purges.

He was also partly being boosted by the will of the Force/Valley of the Jedi (quite possibly the most powerful force nexus in the galaxy). When the Valley of the Jedi was essentially broken (after he defeated Jerec, arguably the second most skilled and powerful force using servant of the Emperor) little power remained there (Katarn released the most of the spirits trapped there), and Katarn's abilities were reduced greatly.

Using in game stats, lowest canon, but still applicable, especially as these powers appear in the cutscenes, Katarn's skills rapidly became those of a Jedi Master during the events of Jedi Knight, but declined greatly in its expansion, until he drew on the power of the Sith Temple on Dromund Kaas. Similarly, in Jedi Outcast, he again steals power from the Valley of the Jedi, though, fortunately for the Galaxy, nothing like the same amount was accessible by that time.

It is also important to note that Katarn had latent force skills many years before, shortly before the battle of Yavin. He was just not able to identify them.

</Dark Forces series ramblings...>

[NecronLord]

ROTS Spoilers

As an individual, I can't say I like the idea of raising young beings, almost from birth, in the Order, but how do you attribute their downfall to it? The one case where it screwed up seriously was with Anakin, and if anything, tiat's because he came in too late.

Yoda does. He states that the Jedi are inflexible because of their system of producing generations of Jedi whose methods are identical to those of preceeding generations. The younglings system indoctrinates them so heavily that they are unable to develop, and the few free-thinking Jedi (such as Qui-Gon) were ostracised.

In comparison, the Sith change and advance their knowledge with each generation. Sidious is not particularly powerful in himself, but the Sith body of lore has been unmolested for a millenium, and the Sith have become far more powerful than the Jedi they once had parity with.

Without the younglings system, new thought and innovation would be introduced to the order with each generation, and they would eventully gain lost ground and become the equals of the Sith they once were. If the NJO were to reinstitue the younglings system however, they'd just get purged again.

For one thing, bringing in people who are already teenagers risks their already having developed negative agendas, idiosyncracies, intentions, whatever.

Idiosyncracities such as... Qui-Gon Jinn's route to immortality perhaps... Wow. Such a drawback.

The Jedi were never intended to be allowed to be without 'intentions.' Hell, if we subscribe to Qui Gon and Yoda's belief in a 'living force' then it actually struck the Jedi down by removing their powers and letting fully powered Sidious loose on them because of their lack of development - this is, according to some Lucas comments, what the prophecy is about. Balance means removing all the nonsense the Old Jedi order had built up, and returning it to what it was originally.

[Coriolis]

Quick question: Wasn't Katarn the guy who picked up the lightsaber and could somehow use the force?

Partly with the assistance of a deceased Jedi Master called Rahn, who presumably learnt Qui Gon's teachings from Yoda during a brief visit to Dagobah, and presumably knew Bail Organa, and a quasi-holocronesque journal Rhan created to pass on his knowledge after the Jedi Purges.

He was also partly being boosted by the will of the Force/Valley of the Jedi (quite possibly the most powerful force nexus in the galaxy). When the Valley of the Jedi was essentially broken (after he defeated Jerec, arguably the second most skilled and powerful force using servant of the Emperor) little power remained there (Katarn released the most of the spirits trapped there), and Katarn's abilities were reduced greatly.

Using in game stats, lowest canon, but still applicable, especially as these powers appear in the cutscenes, Katarn's skills rapidly became those of a Jedi Master during the events of Jedi Knight, but declined greatly in its expansion, until he drew on the power of the Sith Temple on Dromund Kaas. Similarly, in Jedi Outcast, he again steals power from the Valley of the Jedi, though, fortunately for the Galaxy, nothing like the same amount was accessible by that time.

It is also important to note that Katarn had latent force skills many years before, shortly before the battle of Yavin. He was just not able to identify them.

</Dark Forces series ramblings...>

Thx Necronlord

[Cykeisme]

Katarn deliberately allowed his Force connection to atrophy between Mysteries of the Sith and Jedi Outcast, because he felt he couldn't trust himself with it after his brush with the Dark Side.

He's already Force sensitive, and only tapped into the Valley on Ruusan in Jedi Outcast because he needed to regain his ability to use the Force immediately.. to take revenge on Desann for killing his partner Jan, no less.

The Valley still had enough power remaining to empower Desann's Reborn army. The whole business with channeling the valley's "Force energy" into people through crystals was a bit meh, but I didn't mind since it was a great excuse to throw tons of dark side adepts at Kyle

[NecronLord]

Katarn deliberately allowed his Force connection to atrophy between Mysteries of the Sith and Jedi Outcast, because he felt he couldn't trust himself with it after his brush with the Dark Side.

Yes. However, he did gain power/skill from his time in the Dromund Kaas temple. He suddenly gained the dark side ability (used by Jerec to destroy the cargo ship) to shoot giant balls of red light out of his hands while he was there.

He's already Force sensitive, and only tapped into the Valley on Ruusan in Jedi Outcast because he needed to regain his ability to use the Force immediately.. to take revenge on Desann for killing his partner Jan, no less.

Yes. If all the power was still there, he could well have ended up as the all powerful new emperor in the dark side ending of Jedi Knight, no? Though admittedly, Kyle torturing the Scarran, err, Desann, to death with such power would have been entertaining.

The Valley still had enough power remaining to empower Desann's Reborn army. The whole business with channeling the valley's "Force energy" into people through crystals was a bit meh, but I didn't mind since it was a great excuse to throw tons of dark side adepts at Kyle

Yes. However, it didn't have enough to pull off all that 'supernovae at whim' stuff Rhan was claiming was possible in Jedi Knight, and given that he supposedly released the spirits of the jedi on Rusaan after the events of DF2, one would imagine that it had been reduced to a very powerful force-nexus (like the one under the Jedi Temple) as opposed to the 'Dark Jedi who can take 40K's Emperor of Man' creator that it was before DF2.

[Spartan]

Kyle has also appeared in the more recent SW Tales, fighting the Vong no less, with Jan Ors in tow.

Wasn't he also the Weapons Instructor/Master in Jedi Academy?

[Cykeisme]

Hrm yeah, I forgot all about the kickass Dark Side ending for Jedi Knight, with empowering himself with the Ruusan Valley's power. The scene with Kyle sitting on a throne looking all evil was badass.

After reading this thread I was going to replay Jedi Academy.. then I wanted to play Jedi Knight II before I did that.. now I want to play JK first. Maybe I'll see if I can get Dark Forces working on my machine, and take it from the top!

I still have JK and DF, but I can't locate my MotS disc anywhere

[NecronLord]

Hrm yeah, I forgot all about the kickass Dark Side ending for Jedi Knight, with empowering himself with the Ruusan Valley's power. The scene with Kyle sitting on a throne looking all evil was badass.

Yup. I used that as an avatar for a time...

Emperor Katarn was so much cooler than Palpatine. 'Extinguish them painfully.'

Shit. Now "The Rise of The Second Galactic Empire" lead by Katarn appears on my fanfic to-do list. Anyone care to speculate what Sariss is like in bed?

Maybe I'll see if I can get Dark Forces working on my machine, and take it from the top!

It still runs on my Win XP system, so it probably runs on more modern ones too.

I still have JK and DF, but I can't locate my MotS disc anywhere

I've lost/destroyed two MotS discs. I'm onto my third...

[Cykeisme]

Shit. Now "The Rise of The Second Galactic Empire" lead by Katarn appears on my fanfic to-do list. Anyone care to speculate what Sariss is like in bed?

Probably a hell of a lot better than Jan.. I'll bet Jan was a starfish.
They were both hot in the JK cinematics though. Kyle's a lucky bastard.

I've lost/destroyed two MotS discs. I'm onto my third...

Wha...?


Edit: Just scrolled up to your thingy on the inflexibility of the Jedi Order at the time of their fall.. I guess you've convinced me.
Their dogmatic approach was doubltessly a major contributor to their downfall, and could have even been the will of the Living Force (:o).
I wish we got more details on the nature of the "shroud of the Dark Side", though.. precisely what powers the Jedi were losing, by how much, and whether the shroud was actually, intentionally, consciously generated by Sidious or simply a side effect of his increasing power and impending takeover.. or if it was the will of the Force itself.

[Crown]

I feel guilty mentioning this but ... ever since I saw RotS, occasionally mind you, just everynow and then, I will load up JA at a save point where there about 8-10 Dark Side adepts surrounding me and well, I'll turn on God Mode ... and just well, Force Lightning them all to death screaming UNLIMITED POWER!!! at the screen ...

[Cykeisme]

[Crown]

[Drunk Monkey]

I feel guilty mentioning this but ... ever since I saw RotS, occasionally mind you, just everynow and then, I will load up JA at a save point where there about 8-10 Dark Side adepts surrounding me and well, I'll turn on God Mode ... and just well, Force Lightning them all to death screaming UNLIMITED POWER!!! at the screen ...

Hell I’ve bin doing that since JK 1 came out, except with stormies.

[Lord Pounder]

I feel guilty mentioning this but ... ever since I saw RotS, occasionally mind you, just everynow and then, I will load up JA at a save point where there about 8-10 Dark Side adepts surrounding me and well, I'll turn on God Mode ... and just well, Force Lightning them all to death screaming UNLIMITED POWER!!! at the screen ...

You mean I'm not the only one who thought to do that?

[Kurgan]

JA Plus? Heathen!

OJP mod is the true path!

[Ender]

NL: The only true small children mentioned are Ben skywalker and the horn children. The rest of them seem to be in the age or 10-15 or so based of the brief descriptions of them and their actions as a group.

[Ace Pace]

Wrong name AFAIK, their just called children or padawans or something like that.

It's not the name. It's the idea. It's a questionably-moral concept I thought the NJO did not practice, both for its dubious morals (Brainwashing, deliberately bringing children into danger etc) and the fact that it is a contributing factor to the jedi-inflexibility that caused the rise of the Sith in Sidious.

Teenagers, as in the 'young jedi knights' books, I can live with, especially when they have healthy parental relationships, but the practice of taking and isolating younglings destroyed the Old Jedi Order. The NJO should not fucking do it, or they will all die to the next revolutionary Sith/Dark Sider that comes along.

As I understand the NJO system, first off it deals with the whole "Kidnapping" issue, its entirely volunterry, and involves all age groups. From reading the NJO itself, I also notice that the youngest are atleast 6 years old, if not older.