Lightsaber Form Official Names

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-06-01 12:52pm

In the ROTS novelization there are some official names for the various numbered forms from the earlier prequels. I'm not sure that they were all named in the novel but if anyone can list these for me or point me to a website that does list them not by number but by name I would appreciate it - Fanfic related. I tried the SW.com databanks but there was nothing there that I could find.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-06-01 12:56pm

Shii-Cho- 1
Makashi- 2 (Dooku)
Soresu- 3 (Obi-Wan)
Ataru- 4 (Yoda, Qui Gon)
Shien- 5 (Anakin)
Niman- 6
Juyo-7
Vaapad- Mace

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-06-01 01:03pm

Many thanks GR.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-01 01:25pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Shii-Cho- 1
Makashi- 2 (Dooku)
Soresu- 3 (Obi-Wan)
Ataru- 4 (Yoda, Qui Gon)
Shien- 5 (Anakin)
Niman- 6
Juyo-7
Vaapad- Mace

IIRC it's Ataro, not Ataru and which form was diplomat from (that used in adition of form 3 in Geonosis Arena.

namdoolb · Post by **namdoolb** » 2005-06-01 01:28pm

Ghost Rider wrote:Shii-Cho- 1
Makashi- 2 (Dooku)
Soresu- 3 (Obi-Wan)
Ataru- 4 (Yoda, Qui Gon)
Shien- 5 (Anakin)
Niman- 6
Juyo-7
Vaapad- Mace

Interestingly enough, apart from Vaapad, those are the same sabre forms used in KOTOR 2. I don't have KOTOR 2 to hand at the moment ( I'm not posting from home), so I can't give the form descriptions from the game. Which is a great pity, 'cause it would be interesting to see how much common ground the game shares with the canonicity of the sabre forms.

SpacedTeddyBear · Post by **SpacedTeddyBear** » 2005-06-01 02:41pm

Well according to KOTOR2 ( and Kreia):

- Shii-Cho is a simple form that used used when outnumbered.
- Makashi is a form used to combat against Jedi/Sith specifically.
- Soresu is a form used to defend oneself from blasters.
- Ataro is a form that specializes in one on one combat.
- Shien is a more agressive form of Soresu, but does not sacrifice defence against blasters.
- Niman..... doesn't really mention it. I believe this is the diplomat's form.
- Juyo is a form that basically owns all.... unless you're going up against someone using force powers against you because you're " surrendering yourself to the force" which opens up that avenue of attack.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-06-01 02:45pm

Attach what the descriptions are

Basically Reynolds and another guy came up with the seven forms. KoTOR 2 gave the names which were used through out the EP3 book.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-01 03:24pm

KotOR 2 didn't make up the names, and they changed the applications of many of the forms. An example of a game taking liberties for its own sake, I suppose.
Niman, for example, involves using two lightsabers.

IIRC they first appeared in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook for WotC's Star Wars RPG.. possibly elsewhere earlier.

Whoa okay, I just looked at KotOR 2, the descriptions in the sourcebook and the link with the descriptions of the numerical forms and there's disparities between all three. I'm getting confused.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-01 03:30pm

Cykeisme wrote:KoTOR 2 didn't make up the names, and they changed the applications of many of the forms. An example of a game taking liberties for its own sake, I suppose.

Niman, for example, involves using two lightsabers.

IIRC they first appeared in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook for WotC's Star Wars RPG.. possibly elsewhere earlier.

I'm not sure isn't that Jedi that was blasted by Jango (the real deal, not a Clone) used form 6 (Niman), Also isn't Vaapad only evolution of form 7 to max power (and that's why Vaapad is called form 7 sometimes).

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-06-01 03:34pm

Can a Jedi be a master of more than one form? It seems that a Jedi sticks to one form and masters that (ie. Obi Wan - Soresu, Dooku - Mikasha, Yoda - Ataro, Mace - Vapaad, Anakin/Luke - Shien, etc)

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-01 03:38pm

Stravo wrote:Can a Jedi be a master of more than one form? It seems that a Jedi sticks to one form and masters that (ie. Obi Wan - Soresu, Dooku - Mikasha, Yoda - Ataro, Mace - Vapaad, Anakin/Luke - Shien, etc)

it possible, but common as Jedi tend to choose their primary form to cover a weakness

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-06-01 03:38pm

Stravo wrote:Can a Jedi be a master of more than one form? It seems that a Jedi sticks to one form and masters that (ie. Obi Wan - Soresu, Dooku - Mikasha, Yoda - Ataro, Mace - Vapaad, Anakin/Luke - Shien, etc)

Actually yes.

Vaapad/Juyo are noted to be masters of a variety of styles in order to fully enter Juyo. For Vaapad, Mace was noted to master at least Shien.

With Dooku I believe they mention he enjoys using his style but in a variety of Republic comics it's noted he taught everything there is to teach to Qui Gon of Ataru, since Yoda essentially taught him everything there was to learn.

There are also a few Jedi Masters who do teach multiple styles.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-01 03:49pm

Okay, I re-checked the three sources.

The Power of the Jedi sourcebook has only numbering (no names), and it goes hand-in-hand with this page that someone posted earlier.
In addition, there's a web enhancement by Wizards that adds an additional two unorthodox forms.

KotOR 2, however, uses a bunch of names and also numbers the forms, but some are completely different from the other two sources, particularly forums I and IV.

To summarize, two of the sources agree with each other (the Wizards sourcebook and the page), but KotOR 2 describes some of the forums differently.

Edit: ARGH it's a bitch comparing different sources, considering they all use quantitative descriptions. I found this wiki as well.. the info seems to gel with other stuff, check it out.
http://en.efactory.pl/Seven_Forms_of_Lightsaber_Combat

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-06-01 04:43pm

Indeed in the ROTS novel, both Anakin and Obi-wan change forms during their battle with Dooku in an effort to throw him off balance.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-06-01 04:46pm

Spartan wrote:Indeed in the ROTS novel, both Anakin and Obi-wan change forms during their battle with Dooku in an effort to throw him off balance.

But I don't think they are masters of those other forms they were using. Obi Wan was using Aruyo (his old preferred form) and Anakin I think was using Form I. But they didn't seem to have a mastery of it as Dooku found their fighting almost laughable but then they switch to their preferred forms which they have mastered and they start whomping on Dooku. Seems to me that Jedi tend to truly master only one form.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2005-06-01 04:47pm

Lord Revan wrote:I'm not sure isn't that Jedi that was blasted by Jango (the real deal, not a Clone) used form 6 (Niman), Also isn't Vaapad only evolution of form 7 to max power (and that's why Vaapad is called form 7 sometimes).

Coleman Trebor is reported to have been a Form VI user.

It's supposed to be a little bit of every form but not really a master of any. This supposedly left the Jedi who practiced this form more time to devote to training in other non-lightsaber maters. I think this form is also referred to as the "Diplomatic Form" or something along those lines.

I think it was the Episode III visual dictionary and maybe the Novelization that was saying that Obi-Wan was actually a master of two styles. One being the defensive form III and the other had something to do with the user throwing themselves "into the eye of the storm". Are these actually the same form but a different variant?

I started getting lost on these things when they stopped calling them by number and used names instead.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-06-01 04:47pm

What about Djem So? The only place I've ever heard that mentioned was when Anakin used it in the RotS novel, and I'm quite curious about it.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-06-01 05:18pm

Stravo wrote:
Spartan wrote:Indeed in the ROTS novel, both Anakin and Obi-wan change forms during their battle with Dooku in an effort to throw him off balance.
But I don't think they are masters of those other forms they were using. Obi Wan was using Aruyo (his old preferred form) and Anakin I think was using Form I. But they didn't seem to have a mastery of it as Dooku found their fighting almost laughable but then they switch to their preferred forms which they have mastered and they start whomping on Dooku. Seems to me that Jedi tend to truly master only one form.

Obi-Wan switched to Soresu (Form III) by AotC (IIRC), in TPM he was using Ataru (Form IV) like Qui-Gon, I don't think he really mastered it given his sloppy form in TPM though.

And just to ring the Mack-Daddy's bell and all, Obi-Wan isn't a Master of Soresu ... he is the Master of Soresu according to Mace.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-01 05:37pm

Manus Celer Dei wrote:What about Djem So? The only place I've ever heard that mentioned was when Anakin used it in the RotS novel, and I'm quite curious about it.

Cyke wrote:http://en.efactory.pl/Seven_Forms_of_Lightsaber_Combat

You no clicky my linky?

Crown wrote:And just to ring the Mack-Daddy's bell and all, Obi-Wan isn't a Master of Soresu ... he is the Master of Soresu according to Mace.

Obi-Wan is indeed my favorite character now. I know not what this "Mack-Daddy" term means, and yet it sounds so.. right.

Edit: Hay, what about Darth Sidious? I'd go for something like Makashi, but he uses a lot of thrusts instead of sweeps.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-06-01 05:50pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Manus Celer Dei wrote:What about Djem So? The only place I've ever heard that mentioned was when Anakin used it in the RotS novel, and I'm quite curious about it.
Cyke wrote:http://en.efactory.pl/Seven_Forms_of_Lightsaber_Combat
You no clicky my linky?

I couldn't see the site itself, since I'm not using Firefox, but the wiki article linked in it only mentioned Djem So in the title of Shien / Djem So, nowhere does it say anything specifically about Djem So. Since in the novel Dooku specifically notes that Anakin's Djem So was different from the Shien he used at the beginning of the fight, I'm not too sure whether listing Djem So as a subform of Shien is correct.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-06-01 06:01pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Cyke wrote:Linkhttp://en.efactory.pl/Seven_Forms_of_Lightsaber_Combatthere
You no clicky my linky?

I have a problem with that article (actually this one, and the link Ghost Rider gave). Both of them claim that Shien (Form V) focuses the bolt back on the attacker, as one of the specific points against Soresu (Form III) (or something Soresu doesn't do) but Obi-Wan was doing this in TPM while using Ataru (Form IV) and in RotS he took out just as many battle droids in the hanger scene as Anakin did reflecting their blaster bolts back at them.

In fact the only example I can think of when he didn't do this, was against Jango in AotC (but he did do it against the droids in the arena). But then again Jango wasn't standing still ... it's just strange is all.

Also in LoE, Anakin marvels at how Obi-Wan deflects bolts back on his attackers or to a power panel to shut the door so effortlessly and compliments Obi-Wan on it, to which he replies; 'the advantages of Soresu' ..