Are ST psionics a Force ability

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2005-06-01 05:25am

The mental powers used by notable trek characters from the hurling of Voyager lights years by Kes, to the humble vulcan mind meld. Could these be seen as a Force ability.

I have seen this theory floated around on other sites before. My personal view is no, they are something different. To suggest that they work by the same method is the same as saying SW shields must work the same as ST shields because they do the same thing.

Thoughts?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-06-01 06:31am

No. While you can formulate theories that they are latent Force abilities, you could say they are the first markings of the Warp abilities and Chaos is intending to establish a foothold.

Mind powers are usually unqie yet similar in almost every universe.

Martok · Post by **Martok** » 2005-06-01 09:55am

In Voyager it's called "Poor writing requires a plot construct".

Vulcan's are using natural psychic ability that some humans display even today. It's a natural ability that doesn't appear overly mystic in nature. Much the same as the Betazoids telepathy/empathy as I see it.

The force is derived from a symbiotic relationship, far more similar to the Trill than Vulcans. It also appears to be somewhat religious in nature however i'll leave it up to content experts to go into that one.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-06-01 01:28pm

Full Betazeds can hear thoughts as clearly as they can hear spoken words, something that IIRC only fairly advanced Jedi/Sith can do, yet they show no telekinetic powers and not even the limited precog an untrained Force-sensitive has. They also cannot influence minds. And their telepathic abilities are latent, from everything we've seen. Betazed telepathy must be somehow related to brain structure, not the Force. Ditto for Vulcans.

Kes's powers, especially when she comes back in that horrible episode which completely destroys her character, seem far more Force-like. But we've never seen even very powerful Force users hurl a ship at faster than light speeds.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-01 03:32pm

Kes's powers, especially when she comes back in that horrible episode which completely destroys her character, seem far more Force-like. But we've never seen even very powerful Force users hurl a ship at faster than light speeds.

Well, actually, this happened once but:

1. There were a dozen Jedi.
2. They were in a structure specifically built to amplify force abilities.
3. One of them died in the process.
4. KJA.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-01 03:35pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:1. There were a dozen Jedi.

30 Padawans and 2 knights not dozen and it was full fleet not just a single ship

Imperator Galacticus · Post by **Imperator Galacticus** » 2005-06-01 04:38pm

And think the most telling argument in showing ST psionics are not Force related is the fact that no telepath throughout the history of Trek has experienced anything similar to an energy field encompassing all life. In the end I find it unbelievable that a telepath can be using a medium and not identify where that medium is coming from.

Also nothing such as midi-cholorians have been identified by any Trek power...it's much of a stretch to assume Trek psionics are Force-generated and not something related instead with a species brain.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-06-01 05:12pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Kes's powers, especially when she comes back in that horrible episode which completely destroys her character, seem far more Force-like. But we've never seen even very powerful Force users hurl a ship at faster than light speeds.
Well, actually, this happened once but:

1. There were a dozen Jedi.
2. They were in a structure specifically built to amplify force abilities.
3. One of them died in the process.
4. KJA.

I'm aware of that incident, but to my knowledge, the ISDs were propelled at sublight.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-06-01 05:28pm

RedImperator wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
Kes's powers, especially when she comes back in that horrible episode which completely destroys her character, seem far more Force-like. But we've never seen even very powerful Force users hurl a ship at faster than light speeds.
Well, actually, this happened once but:

1. There were a dozen Jedi.
2. They were in a structure specifically built to amplify force abilities.
3. One of them died in the process.
4. KJA.
I'm aware of that incident, but to my knowledge, the ISDs were propelled at sublight.

I'm not so sure, when Palleon made contact with Daala he said his Hyperdrive engines were damaged and it would take like 2 weeks (I swear this is from memory, the time could very well be wrong but I recall it was a time that meant that he was effectively out of the fight) to get back in sublight, and this happened (the Force Push of Doom) in an instant.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-06-01 10:57pm

Crown wrote:I'm not so sure, when Palleon made contact with Daala he said his Hyperdrive engines were damaged and it would take like 2 weeks (I swear this is from memory, the time could very well be wrong but I recall it was a time that meant that he was effectively out of the fight) to get back in sublight, and this happened (the Force Push of Doom) in an instant.

...

...

...

<wanders off muttering something about KJA>

Sidious · Post by **Sidious** » 2005-06-02 10:00pm

Martok wrote:Vulcan's are using natural psychic ability that some humans display even today. It's a natural ability that doesn't appear overly mystic in nature. Much the same as the Betazoids telepathy/empathy as I see it.

Regarding Vulcans: In TOS, Spock puts his hand against a wall and telepathically forces a guard outside the room to walk a short distance and open a locked door. Also, in The Doomsday Machine Spock can feel the death of hundreds of Vulcans from light years away and it causes him physical pain.

I dont think we've seen anything like this from any other Vulcan since. Is it the force? I dont think so, but its still impressive.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2005-06-03 03:41am

What about Sybok? He used telepathy to drasticaly influence others. Especcially the scene on Nimbus III with that poor schmoo strikes me. Not the same as Jedi mind tricks, to be sure, but still Sybok displayed a much stronger telepathic ability than (most?) other Vulcans.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-06-03 05:19pm

Ghost Rider wrote:No. While you can formulate theories that they are latent Force abilities, you could say they are the first markings of the Warp abilities and Chaos is intending to establish a foothold.

Obviously the Warp exists in the Trek and Wars galaxies, we're just seeing it as it used to be before the creation of the Chaos Gods. Hence the Force and ST psionics are both warpcraft.

darth korte · Post by **darth korte** » 2005-07-27 09:58am

Junghalli wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:No. While you can formulate theories that they are latent Force abilities, you could say they are the first markings of the Warp abilities and Chaos is intending to establish a foothold.
Obviously the Warp exists in the Trek and Wars galaxies, we're just seeing it as it used to be before the creation of the Chaos Gods. Hence the Force and ST psionics are both warpcraft.

WHAT! (hurls force lightning)

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-27 11:50am

A word of warning, necromancy is not appriciated here.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-07-27 02:26pm

Noble Ire wrote:A word of warning, necromancy is not appriciated here.

There's always time for zombies.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2005-07-28 01:03am

Stofsk wrote:There's always time for zombies.

And shotguns. :slowly chambers a +1 shell: Don't forget the shotguns.

I have to wonder, though, what makes some people think that one catalyst from one universe that is generally considered unique to said 'verse can somehow cause the same phenomenon in another. I mean, there're plenty enough reasons one could speculate as to cause this - it somehow being a holdover from prehistoric days, some wierd one-in-a-billion fluke regarding neural structure that somehow enables a person to sense and decode the neural impulses from another person, some ierd condition introduced by a mad scientest...eh.

Rant's over, and I'll let this thing fester now.

jawbertsc · Post by **jawbertsc** » 2005-07-29 11:56am

I remeber a TOS episode where a friend of Kirk's was inbued with mental powers. He had TK and could shoot some sort of energy. Took another one with simular powers and a phaser rifle to put him down. as for the being force abilities i dont think so.

Not going to waste a post...but guys...kill necro by informing a mod instead of going "ME CAN DO P0ST +1!!1!1!" ~GR

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Are ST psionics a Force ability

Are ST psionics a Force ability

weird powers