Zero132132 wrote:We couldn't leave in large enough quantities to stop an overpopulation problem, and many people want to stay here.
Who said anything about alleviating any overpopulation problem? The point of colonizing other planets is to ensure the survival of our species. It would be far more difficult to wipe us out if we lived on a number of systems, versus sticking to one planet.
Beware of the Covenant.
Oh jebus, why do I always think of Red versus Blue when the subject of Halo comes up? And when someone mentions MC, I always think of Caboose or O'Malley.
There have always been those who journey to new frontiers. It didn't matter if it was death and unprofitable. For their own unfathomable reasons they went.
This isn't the same. This will cost loads more money then any other of these new frontiers. There will be a lot more people that need convincing of the value of this kind of journey, and most people won't want to do it unless it provides an obvious benefit to them. This wouldn't be like columbus sailing to the americas. The distances, times, and costs are all a lot greater. So far, we don't even have a destination yet.
There have always been those who journey to new frontiers. It didn't matter if it was death and unprofitable. For their own unfathomable reasons they went.
This isn't the same. This will cost loads more money then any other of these new frontiers. There will be a lot more people that need convincing of the value of this kind of journey, and most people won't want to do it unless it provides an obvious benefit to them. This wouldn't be like columbus sailing to the americas. The distances, times, and costs are all a lot greater. So far, we don't even have a destination yet.
I have to call bullshit on that. It's a very pessimistic view point that I can't agree with. I don't think that money will be an issue, as there are plenty of extremely wealthy individuals that would be willing to finance something like that? You're comparing modern society/economics to 1492? I think your logic may be a bit off on that. If someone doesn't finance it for the sake of science, then they will probobly do it for the fame and notoriety, and the fact that they will have made history. If people were as pessimistic as you, the americas probobly wouldn't have been 'discovered' by Columbus.
Qt: Do you think scientific advancements are more likely to occur under a united Earth, or one that is constantly feuding and competing, trying to get the edge in technology? I noticed that the space-race between the USSR and the US threw us forward into the space exploration age. Would that type of trend have continued if the USSR or some other country was still competing with us?
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
mplsjocc wrote:
I have to call bullshit on that. It's a very pessimistic view point that I can't agree with. I don't think that money will be an issue, as there are plenty of extremely wealthy individuals that would be willing to finance something like that? You're comparing modern society/economics to 1492? I think your logic may be a bit off on that. If someone doesn't finance it for the sake of science, then they will probobly do it for the fame and notoriety, and the fact that they will have made history. If people were as pessimistic as you, the americas probobly wouldn't have been 'discovered' by Columbus.
I'm not saying that it can't happen, or that it shouldn't. I'd be very glad if such a project ever actually got off of the ground. But currently, we don't have the science for it, a destination in mind, or any idea of what to do to make a dead planet support life. The project, at this point, is far beyond us. This may not always be true, but leaving the solar system, to many, would present no specific benefits to themselves. I'm not being pessimistic, just realistic. People won't fund something that won't yield any direct kind of profit, and won't bring us any greater knowledge. A government also would be unlikely to support such a conquest on the grounds that those who left would be extremely likely to have a revolution at first possible opportunity. No country or corperation could make any gains from this, and it's the kind of project that individual wealth and power simply would never cut. At the very least, this project is far FAR away from even being started.
Hate to break it to you, but any old fool CAN'T just slap together some logs and call it a seafaring boat. Columbus was funded by Spain. He didn't pay for the damn thing himself. A seaworthy vessel requires a crew, a good shipwright, proper maintenance, carpenters and weavers (to repair the sail), a captain who has navigation experience, and a shitload of supplies. Back then, 300 pigs were worth a hell of a lot more.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
Yes, but the distances and the amount of actual energy required is MUCH different. The distances will take hundreds of years at least with our current abilities. Without discovering a FTL drive, there's really very small chance of us ever leaving our own solar system. Despite what you may think, sailing an ocean requires no where NEAR the kind of effort hopping from one solar system to another might take. This time, it isn't just sheer engenuity or effort. It will take a lot of people agreeing with it for something like this to get off of the ground.
Zero132132 wrote:Yes, but the distances and the amount of actual energy required is MUCH different. The distances will take hundreds of years at least with our current abilities. Without discovering a FTL drive, there's really very small chance of us ever leaving our own solar system. Despite what you may think, sailing an ocean requires no where NEAR the kind of effort hopping from one solar system to another might take. This time, it isn't just sheer engenuity or effort. It will take a lot of people agreeing with it for something like this to get off of the ground.
I agree, at this point in time we aren't able to. However, my argument was against your view that it will never happen. Unless of course you happen to be psychic? My main issue was with this post, which implied that even if we had the capabilities, it wouldn't happen. Also, the Columbus comparison was a flawed argument from the get go.
Zero132132 wrote:My point is that nobody will ever see any immediate reasons to leave, so the formulation of a long term project to colonize other planets isn't a likely situation. Since there's no way such things would improve our lives here on earth, I see it as quite likely that people simply won't leave. There will be no desire to, and people won't pay for it. We're going to stay here on planet earth until our sun leaves the main sequence. Of course, by then, we'll have killed each other off... or a new species will have risen to sentience. Perhaps several, at that point... who knows?
I still don't believe it can occur with any realistic technology. If we develope an FTL drive, maybe, but FTL is realistically impossible. People simply wouldn't spend that much money, time, and energy on something with no yields. What amazing scientific discovery do you think we'll have that will allow this kind of thing to be viable?
Zero132132 wrote:I still don't believe it can occur with any realistic technology. If we develope an FTL drive, maybe, but FTL is realistically impossible.
Physicists have already demonstrated that faster than the speed of light is possible, under certain conditions. I guess I'm just more optimistic than most.
People simply wouldn't spend that much money, time, and energy on something with no yields. What amazing scientific discovery do you think we'll have that will allow this kind of thing to be viable?
Our current space travel is insufficient to conquer a task of going to another solar system. That article actually stated within itself that the only reason the effect was possible was because the light itself had no mass. Last time I checked, solid matter isn't massless.
Zero132132 wrote:I still don't believe it can occur with any realistic technology. If we develope an FTL drive, maybe, but FTL is realistically impossible.
Physicists have already demonstrated that faster than the speed of light is possible, under certain conditions. I guess I'm just more optimistic than most.
No, no, no. The important part with regards to the speed of light barrier is that it applies to information carrying signals. The experiment you are referencing carried no signal. If you cannot send a signal faster than c, you cannot travel faster than c either. Lots of effects can move faster than c, but they cannot contain any information.
CotK <mew> | HAB | JL | MM | TTC | Cybertron
TAX THE CHURCHES! - Lord Zentei TTC Supreme Grand Prophet
And the LORD said, Let there be Bosons! Yea and let there be Bosoms too!
I'd rather be the great great grandson of a demon ninja than some jackass who grew potatos. -- Covenant
Dead cows don't fart. -- CJvR
...and I like strudel! -- Asuka
Ultimately, we may be forced off Earth if we fuck it over too much. The Earth has a limited capacity for harboring life, and humans aren't helping.
In a hypothetical (rar!) future, Earth might be all but uninhabitable, and humans may have to take to the stars, using cryogenics and advanced AI computers.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
-- Asuka