Shutdown of droid armies: mass-murder?

[Darth Wong]

As the thread says. It is generally accepted that droids in SW can be sentient. Is it accepted that battledroids are sentient? Particularly since we have many examples of them behaving in a very human-like fashion? And if so, was it an act of mass murder to shut down (and presumably, subsequently disassemble) the Separatist droid armies?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well, even if they are regarded as sentient, there's still the strong anti-droid sentiment throughout the Galaxy, which seems to regard droids as inferior.

[Noble Ire]

From a certain point of view I suppose, although I doubt anyone in the SW universe would view it in that way, especially after the destruction which they wrought. Most people dont seem to consider sentient droids sentient unless they get very attached to them, and even then, they dont always apply it to every droid. Also, it must be considered that most of the droids shut down would most likely not be sentient, as droid sentience seems to be brought on by accumulated experience (or it can be a design flaw, or intentionally built in, unlikely in this case) and most of the line droids would most likely be new, replacements for the millions of droids destroyed before them.

[Old Plympto]

How about this train of thought: If you can reactivate the droids, it wouldn't be considered as "death". I would be more concerned about memory wipes that take away their accumulated memories and personality. But those seem to happen all the time without a second thought by any of the organics.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

I think the fact that they were controlled by one central computer overrides the mass-murder thought. Killing the computer which gave them their thoughts though, that may be classed as murder.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I certainly felt sad that all those droids would just suddenly stop and rust and it spelled the end of the PT for me and start of OT as with Vader's rise.

Given the capabilities of even the basic battle droids, I'd call it genocide, especially when they were so funny or cute in the last film (c'mon, the googly eyes on those amphibious tanks raiding Kashyyyk were great).

[Vympel]

I bet you there'll be an EU story where x or y comes into possession of the deactivated droid armies, reactivates them, and wreaks havoc for a time. I can see it coming from a mile off.

[Kurgan]

Well, shutting down your enemy's army would be equivalent to blowing up an enemy country's infantry with a big bomb in our world, so it's definately killing, but it's war violence, not "murder" (unlawful killing).

Treating them like disposable fodder is I think the main issue here, and it's just like the Republic's use of Clones. These armies of beings are disposable property to them. It's slavery.

On the other hand to the people fighting them, it's sad, but these guys were trained from birth to kill, it's all they know. Defending oneself on the battlefield is just how war goes and the give and take, and the tossing out of the window of morality (I'm not pro-war by any means, but you get what I'm saying).

We assume that when the Seperatists are "done" with their armies they'll shut them down. Of course at least the droids can be reprogrammed, re-activated, recycled, etc. They may be a bit more mindless than the clones, but they still seem to have minds, so yes, something is being "killed" even if it's deemed more acceptable by the galaxy at large (just as using clones for fodder may seem more acceptable to them than using "normal" humans).

[Praxis]

I think they are different systems.

The droids in AOTC and ROTS were independent. In TPM, they had one big brain except for maybe some of the lead droids that could think independent. So it was only the death of one.

Military droids have less sentience than other droids, because the last thing you want is your droid questioning you, as well.

[Kurgan]

In AOTC, not shown on screen, they shut down the droids with the Droid Control ship (like in TPM), but then they were re-activated by a backup system.

In ROTS they discuss "shutting down" the droid armies after the Seperatist leaders have been wiped out (IIRC), so apparently it was possible, or else they'd have said "destroy them all" or something.

Remember that they had "independant seeming" battle droids even in TPM too.

Again I see a parallel with the clones. They are more "docile" and controllable than "normal" humans and follow orders without question.

[Cykeisme]

The droids after TPM certainly did their own processing, as opposed to being remote-controlled. Even in TPM, there's still a bit of debate (or perhaps merely confusion) on the actual role of the droid control ship.

Anyway, the conversation between the two SBDs in the Invisible Hand's hangar bay pretty much precludes the possibility of them being remote controlled. If a central computer was controlling them they wouldn't have independent thoughts, and wouldn't need to communicate with each other verbally.

I'm sure that in the course of the long war, many droids spent enough time operational to develop personalities. There was another thread about this (I'm looking for it now).
I do agree that the droids were kinda funny, and they display enough personality that I can imagine a battle droid being a decent side character.

So, yeah, they were "killed" when they were all shut down, as Kurgan said, it can be classified as an act of war anyway. Recall that the Clone Wars resulted in the deaths of many non-droid, non-clone sentients as well. All part of a greater tragedy I guess.


Edit: Here's the thread.
Reconciling Battle Droid Sentience?

[Robert Walper]

You'd think it would be more efficient to take all those droids and turn them into workers. Well, at least the models that would function adaquately as workers anyhow.

[Drunk Monkey]

Well, even if they are regarded as sentient, there's still the strong anti-droid sentiment throughout the Galaxy, which seems to regard droids as inferior.

Hitler considered Jews inferior, did that make the holocaust right?

[Cykeisme]

Well, even if they are regarded as sentient, there's still the strong anti-droid sentiment throughout the Galaxy, which seems to regard droids as inferior.

Hitler considered Jews inferior, did that make the holocaust right?

We're talking about battle droids here. They're combatants. In fact, they're weapons.

[Drunk Monkey]

Well, even if they are regarded as sentient, there's still the strong anti-droid sentiment throughout the Galaxy, which seems to regard droids as inferior.

Hitler considered Jews inferior, did that make the holocaust right?

We're talking about battle droids here. They're combatants. In fact, they're weapons.

But the druids are Sentient non the less, witch gives them in my opinion the same rights as a human, Hutt, Rodian, Chiss or any other sentient inhabitant of the galaxy.

[Isolder74]

The droids are machines. would the fact they can have personalities make them any different than say a tank?

[Battlehymn Republic]

And Jews are simply a group of people. Droids are droids, and nothing like other sentient races (as far as I know).

But then again, wouldn't this just be opening a big can of worms for difficult questions (can you make instant copies of a droid's thinking, is each copy sentient, wouldn't there be a horrendous flood on the HoloNet if each droid had safety measures to make as many back-ups as possible)?

[Cykeisme]

But the druids are Sentient non the less, witch gives them in my opinion the same rights as a human, Hutt, Rodian, Chiss or any other sentient inhabitant of the galaxy.

At most, they have the same rights as a soldier.

Would you also lament the numerous battle droids who were shot with blasters and taken apart with lightsabers, too? This is not a rhetorical question. Would you?

[Kuja]

To those living in the SW galaxy, droids are clearly not considered people. Even Bail Organa, who opposed the war and who shouts in protest when Clonetroopers kill a Jedi padawan, calmly orders the complete memory wipe of a protocol droid, ignoring the droid's clearly evident fright. A cantina bustling with various races gives two droids the boot as soon as they walk in the door.

Even going by the Republic's standards, droids are clearly regarded as machines, not people.

[Drunk Monkey]

But the druids are Sentient non the less, witch gives them in my opinion the same rights as a human, Hutt, Rodian, Chiss or any other sentient inhabitant of the galaxy.

At most, they have the same rights as a soldier.

Would you also lament the numerous battle droids who were shot with blasters and taken apart with lightsabers, too? This is not a rhetorical question. Would you?

If sentient, witch we have seen evidence of them being then yes I would.

[Isolder74]

But the druids are Sentient non the less, witch gives them in my opinion the same rights as a human, Hutt, Rodian, Chiss or any other sentient inhabitant of the galaxy.

At most, they have the same rights as a soldier.

Would you also lament the numerous battle droids who were shot with blasters and taken apart with lightsabers, too? This is not a rhetorical question. Would you?

Since these soilders are mechanical and the Standaerd Proceedure of an defeated army is to confinsate the army's weapons and decomission them as soilder making them civilans again it makes sense. The problem with battle droids is the one job only design. I suppost the B1's could become repair droids but what do you do with the B2's?

[Drunk Monkey]

But the druids are Sentient non the less, witch gives them in my opinion the same rights as a human, Hutt, Rodian, Chiss or any other sentient inhabitant of the galaxy.

At most, they have the same rights as a soldier.

Would you also lament the numerous battle droids who were shot with blasters and taken apart with lightsabers, too? This is not a rhetorical question. Would you?

Since these soilders are mechanical and the Standaerd Proceedure of an defeated army is to confinsate the army's weapons and decomission them as soilder making them civilans again it makes sense. The problem with battle droids is the one job only design. I suppost the B1's could become repair droids but what do you do with the B2's?

What are B2’s? Are they super battle druids?

[Kuja]

Since these soilders are mechanical and the Standaerd Proceedure of an defeated army is to confinsate the army's weapons and decomission them as soilder making them civilans again it makes sense. The problem with battle droids is the one job only design. I suppost the B1's could become repair droids but what do you do with the B2's?

Nightclub bouncers, baby. Have you seen the pecs on those muthafuckas?

[Noble Ire]

What are B2’s? Are they super battle druids?

Yes.

What would you do with the Droidekas I wonder.

[Drunk Monkey]

What are B2’s? Are they super battle druids?

Yes.

What would you do with the Droidekas I wonder.

Then they could be employed as security guards of course.