501st Legion vs. Romulans from Unification

[Macunaima]

A recent argument with some friends while we went to see ROTS inspired me for my first vs. topic. Well, once more filling the needs of the "vs. debate" community, Q comes with the setup of the following scenario for a battle between the fan-based 501st Legion against the Romulan invasion force intended to take Vulcan on the TNG episode Unification.

The 501st would be composed of all 3,000 members from around the world, with everything an Imperial unit of the same size has, including AT-AT and any other vehicles, but no capital ships. TIE fighters would be available on the same number of fans wearing pilot suits. Personal equipment includes not only functional blasters and other weapons, but any personal armor would be real, not just costumes.

However, the fans would have to figure it out how to use the real Imperial hardware just from what they already know – they all have their previous knowledge about Star Wars, but no more general knowledge other than what they know from their routine lives and jobs, whatever it may be (to be fair, the readouts and any other text on the equipment would be in English). Any Vader-wearing fans or other Sith would have functional lightsabers and be sensitive to the Force on the same levels of their characters, but also with no previous training or knowledge on how to proper use it other than what they already know from the six movies and the EU.

As for the Romulans, those would not be Star Trek fans, but "real" Romulans, the 2,000 troops and their 3 troop transports from the TNG episode, including any equipment that they would have as a typical romulan/Star Trek troop unit of such size, whatever it may be. Also the typical training and abilities showed by romulans on Trek episodes and movies.

As a place, a typical medium-size US city... hum, let’s say Indianapolis, as SW Celebration III was held there. No civilians around, and no external intervention of any law-enforcement agencies or military whatsoever. Also, no reinforcements from additional Romulan or (real) Imperial units. Each side is stationed across the city, about 60 miles from each other. The objective is to wipe out the other side, or to get their surrender.

For initial intel, each side is aware just of the presence of the other force and its size. Each side can use the city resources as source for additional intel, such as bookstores and libraries, Internet access and whatever. This would come as an initial advantage for the fans, as they have previous knowledge of what a Romulan is and where to find out more basic information about them, but for the Romulans, they would first have to discover that they could find out more about the other side if they research about the sci-fi franchise know as "Star Wars", but how would they get to this conclusion on the first place is anyone's guess. Additional info about the enemy could come from recon missions and scouts, as much as each side is able to deploy.

In short, the battle is basically between a Wars-based group of regular people with very powerful equipment, against a Trek-based group with much less capable equipment, but already an organized and trained unit. That said, I still would put my money on the 501st – after all, they are Star Wars fans with at least some basic familiarity with the concepts of what they would have at their disposal, not to mention 1,000 more troops. After the initial WTF moment, any fans with some military background and training could come with a basic organization to put things together. After that, it’s unleash the Imperial might on the Romulans. But who knows.

[Noble Ire]

Just how many Vader, Palpatine, and Ventriss 501st members are there? I mean, they by themselves could probably wipe out the Romulans, although with lack of training, I would guess they would probably end up inflicting tremendous collateral damage on the non-endowed 501st members.

501st wins, but trained Romulans are able to kill a great number of the fan troopers.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

A couple questions about the scenario:

Do the members of the 501st know that they can get hurt and killed in this actions? Are they allowed to leave the area if they don't want to risk their lives over this?

[FedRebel]

501st trooper1: Hey, what's this?

501st Trooper2: It looks like a Fex-M3 gernade

*Throws it at the Romulans*

Romulan1: Shit! look at all that equipment, we're so screwed!

*Gernade falls*

Romulan2: What the...

*Romulans die*

[Sharpshooter]

The ground pounders of the 501st shouldn't have too hard of a time learning how to use their equipment - a few hours of training, learning what does what, and keeping the barrels pointed at a wall at all times should let them get the basics of pack swapping, indicator reading, setting switching, etcetera, etcetera. For those that follow documentations on SW weapons closely, this should be even easier.

I'd not trust the TIE pilots to be of much help, though, given the lethal nature of mucking about with fighter controls, and without the proper training, the Sith aren't going to be able to do much besides the absolute basic maneuvers - and even then, their safety is questionable. Hopefully, those with better sense will ditch their sabers for a sidearm instead and apply their sensitivity to sdomething that doesn't have a chance of literily disarming them (ba-dum bum-ching!)

the fact that they havn't been put through the rigors of boot camp means they'll be less effective than your standard fighting force, but their equipment should offset some of this weakness due to range, rate of fire, firepower, etcetera, so a confrontation along a street might go in their favr. When it goes to close-quarters, though, things'll likely turn against the 501st, unless they've got some gadgetry that'd give them a distinctive dvantage, like some sort of sensor that'd pick up on the Romulans (I know there's infrared and some debate about a possible gun-camera, but that's all I recall).

[Asdeed]

Much as I hate to say it i'd have to vote for the Romulans in this one. Sure the 501st has them totally outclassed in gear, but they don't know how to use it! Heck, they might inflict more casualties on themselves while 'learning' than the Romulans would.

Unless something was left out and the average member of the 501st has some military training, or at least some experience with firing guns?

[Enforcer Talen]

the 501 I know locally has been in the army, so there is some skill there.

[Lord of the Farce]

I'd say that the 501st pretty much massacre the Romulans. Sure, they would have a lot of trouble getting Imperial vehicles working just right. But as far as the weapons are concerned, their operations (other than reloading) isn't very much different from real-life weapons. Which shouldn't be surprising, since they are based on real-life weapons in the first place.

Hell, using them (i.e. shooting the hell out of the Romulans) should be even easier than real-life guns, since with blasters and lasers you hardly (if at all) need to adjust long-ranged shots for gravity, so it's quite literally point-and-shoot... and shoot... and shoot...

[Jaepheth]

Friendly fire would probably be the biggest problem to the 501st

for example:

grenades and thermal detonators not being used correctly.
crashing Tie fighters
etc.

[Macunaima]

Do the members of the 501st know that they can get hurt and killed in this actions?

Yes, all of them are aware that is a real combat situation. They also know that the Romulans will engage the 501st no matter what.

Are they allowed to leave the area if they don't want to risk their lives over this?

They can't leave the 60 miles area radius, but they can go wherever they want inside it.

[Ender]

Romulans own thier asses in a way that just isn't funny.

Guys we are talking about your average fat dateless loser living in his parents basement here, vs a trained military force. The tech difference doesn't matter, the training makes all the difference.

[Shroom Man 777]

Like your average Star Trek ground force is any less inept.

[NecronLord]

How many 501st ers are up to the task of taking a life?

I would be unsurprised if any of the Romulans aren't.

[Ender]

I would be unsurprised if any of the Romulans aren't.

I'd be fucking shocked. What the hell is the point of having an army whose soldiers can't deal with the inevitable consequence of fighting a war?

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

The 501st get their collective asses handed to them. First, they'll probably lose a large sum of their forces and the majority of their heavy equipment such as TIEs and AT-whatevers just figuring out what the hell all the controls do and blowing themselves to hell.

Second, they are not combat-trained for the most part. They would probably start panicking and running if they knew that their weapons really did work and over a thousand romulan soldiers were marching against them. Probably most of them couldn't even aim right or they would try to fight the Romulans Rambo-style.

In contrast, the Romulan forces are trained soldiers, and they were expected to be able to hold an entire planet against the Federation.

Frankly, the Romulans=Professionals, 501st=Nerds. That's all there is to it.

[LordShaithis]

Frankly, the Romulans=Professionals, 501st=Nerds. That's all there is to it.

Agreed. This poll is just silly, and you people voting for the civilians are just looking ridiculous.

[Lord Revan]

This nerd who SW vs. a professional army from ST absurd (to me this look desperate attempt to say that ST could beat SW if...), on other hand if we used the true "Vader's fist" things would quite diffent.

[Ender]

I hereby term all who voted for the dweebs to be "Star Wankers". Hand in your Warsie cards and you will be issued the new ones.

[NecronLord]

I'd be fucking shocked. What the hell is the point of having an army whose soldiers can't deal with the inevitable consequence of fighting a war?

Typo. That should have been:

I would be surprised if any of the Romulans aren't.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I know the OP doesn't mention it, but perhaps he forgot. The invasion force does have a cloaked Warbird escorting it. If the Warbird is allowed to provide orbital support then this battle if over pretty quickly.

[jegs2]

Romulans own thier asses in a way that just isn't funny.

Guys we are talking about your average fat dateless loser living in his parents basement here, vs a trained military force. The tech difference doesn't matter, the training makes all the difference.

I concur.

[Laird]

I'm sorry but a bunch of fatasses with no formal military training, wrapped up in tupper ware has no chance of victory. Even armed with SW weapons.(Even against and inept force of romulans.)

[Enforcer Talen]

-mutters- gents, some of them do have military training. not saying they all do or its enough to change the tide.

but the stormies is a hobby, and some of these guys are military or former military.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Why wouldn't the 501st simply surrender as soon as they get the chance? All they have to win if they do this is pride and the chance to kill a couple thousand sapient beings. That doesn't sound like it's really worth risking your life for, honestly.

[Enforcer Talen]

pride covers a lot.