Hull breach contaiment techs

[Lord Revan]

OK I watched the hull breach scene from ST:nemesis on DVD and it took 16 seconds from the viewscreen blew to moment the shield was activated( and IIRC the shield was activated by Picard)

ok in ROTS when Invisible Hand loses a bridge windows a blast door closes this gap in about 14 s (IIRC)

I think that it's safe to conclude from this(and earlier) evidence hull breach containment techs in SW is better.

[Alyeska]

And on the Defiant forcefields have been activated in less then 5 seconds. And on the Invisible Hand the hanger doors closed far quicker then the bridge blast doors did.

[Lord Revan]

And on the Defiant forcefields have been activated in less then 5 seconds. And on the Invisible Hand the hanger doors closed far quicker then the bridge blast doors did.

on a breach or on ramdom place (this matters)

[SirNitram]

And on the Defiant forcefields have been activated in less then 5 seconds. And on the Invisible Hand the hanger doors closed far quicker then the bridge blast doors did.

That's the thing, Aly: The Defiant's forcefields turn on, but the Hand's doors snap shut. One will be fucked at a power interruption. One will not.

[Batman]

And on the Defiant forcefields have been activated in less then 5 seconds. And on the Invisible Hand the hanger doors closed far quicker then the bridge blast doors did.

on a breach or on ramdom place (this matters)

Urm-if there is no breach activating those forcefields is moderately pointless, you know.

[Lord Revan]

Urm-if there is no breach activating those forcefields is moderately pointless, you know.

anyway at E-E shield needed to be activated by user (Picard), I don't know about the Defaint shield as I have seen very little of DS9and it matters security shield or containment shield will go on in instant , but what we need to know is how long will take take system realize there is a breach (if ever will)

[Kamakazie Sith]

And on the Defiant forcefields have been activated in less then 5 seconds. And on the Invisible Hand the hanger doors closed far quicker then the bridge blast doors did.

That's the thing, Aly: The Defiant's forcefields turn on, but the Hand's doors snap shut. One will be fucked at a power interruption. One will not.

Well, let's be fair here. One was a window port the other had a chuck taken out of the bridge. I suppose they could have physical barriers.

[Ford Prefect]

They possibly do. After all, in First Contact, doesn't Picard's office have a forcefield for a window? Isn't that dangerous in cases of, like Nitram said, a power interuption? Isn't that a case to have some sort of shutter?

And another thing. The Hand lost window. If you blow out a section of the wall, you cant have a shutter. Grievous didn't breach the hull, he shattered a window (well, transparisteel viewport).

[Robert Walper]

And on the Defiant forcefields have been activated in less then 5 seconds. And on the Invisible Hand the hanger doors closed far quicker then the bridge blast doors did.

That's the thing, Aly: The Defiant's forcefields turn on, but the Hand's doors snap shut. One will be fucked at a power interruption. One will not.

I'm missing the logic of employing a forcefield when there's a perfectly functional door for the exact same area.

Emergency Trek force fields are compensating for hull breachs, where there isn't necessarily a door in place to effectively close off the section.

[Ghost Rider]

Uh, there's a discussion about this?

Trek love Forcefields, power loss is not their friend. On the other hand SW loves door which seal off ships in sections, thus minimizing losses.

[Darth Wong]

Even though such freak occurrences have happened in Trek, they remain freak occurrences. The likelihood of something destroying a significant fraction of the bridge structure without killing the crew inside is near-zero. It's like saying that you should design a car to have some kind of safety system in case something rips away the entire car up to the middle of the driver's seat; the realistic likelihood of something that violent leaving the occupants alive is nil. That design effort would have been far better spent making the car's structure stronger so it's harder to tear away half the car.

There is, of course, one possible explanation for the ability to tear away half the structure of the bridge without killing the occupants, but the Trekkies won't like it; it involves the structure being incredibly feeble, so not much energy is required and few collateral damages will result.

[Stark]

Is there a good reason why the IH shutters took so long to close? In the movie it seemed like a hell of a long time for an ostensibly simple system.

[Darth Wong]

Is there a good reason why the IH shutters took so long to close? In the movie it seemed like a hell of a long time for an ostensibly simple system.

Considering the ship had just barely pulled out of a free-fall and was so heavily damaged that it started falling apart soon afterwards, I don't think it's unreasonable to surmise that some of the control systems and sensors may have been functioning at less than optimal levels. For all you know, the wiring from the atmospheric pressure sensors on the bridge to the shutter system was cut, and it didn't read the pressure drop until the hallway sensors picked it up.

[Uraniun235]

They possibly do. After all, in First Contact, doesn't Picard's office have a forcefield for a window? Isn't that dangerous in cases of, like Nitram said, a power interuption? Isn't that a case to have some sort of shutter?

No.

That was some funky hatch on the outside of the ship. It was not his office.

The windows on the Enterprise are not forcefields. The Ent-D's observation lounge windows were explicitly stated by Data to be transparent aluminum.

[Ford Prefect]

Ah, thanks for that.

Darth Wong is right. The Hand was beaten to bits by this point, so we can't expect it to be working at full efficency at that point. And besides, I would expect that if anything was going to break the bridge viewports, its going to be some sort of turbolaser from the outside, and would like fry most of the occupants, so it might not be high on the computers agenda to deal with such a thing, if you get what I mean.

[Bounty]

( and IIRC the shield was activated by Picard)

Emergency forecfields are usually activated automatically (they were in Generations and Voyager)

I think that it's safe to conclude from this(and earlier) evidence hull breach containment techs in SW is better.

SW vessels don't really have hullbreach containment, they just have emergency shutters for windows. If any other part of the hull is breached, the crew is screwed. And you really consider a 2 sec difference - especially considering we've seen far better performance before - enough evidence to call it "better" ?

That's the thing, Aly: The Defiant's forcefields turn on, but the Hand's doors snap shut. One will be fucked at a power interruption. One will not.

I'd like to point out that even with catastrophic battle damage - worse then that of the IH - the emergency forcefields worked perfectly, suggesting a very, very robust and reliable system.

(and if the Voyager was equipped with SW-style shutters, Janeway wouldn't have survived long enough to ram the ship)

After all, in First Contact, doesn't Picard's office have a forcefield for a window? Isn't that dangerous in cases of, like Nitram said, a power interuption? Isn't that a case to have some sort of shutter?

It's presumed to be an airlock of some sort, and it's normally closed off by a physical shutter, like the shuttlebays.

[Lord Revan]

Emergency forecfields are usually activated automatically (they were in Generations and Voyager)

irrelevant as I talking about shield in Nemesis (which seemed activate only after Picard had pressed a button in his chair)

I think that it's safe to conclude from this(and earlier) evidence hull breach containment techs in SW is better.

SW vessels don't really have hullbreach containment, they just have emergency shutters for windows. If any other part of the hull is breached, the crew is screwed. And you really consider a 2 sec difference - especially considering we've seen far better performance before - enough evidence to call it "better" ?

wrong, Star Wars have blast doors to seal of breached sections of ships (or did you forget those door that sealed the hargar)

That's the thing, Aly: The Defiant's forcefields turn on, but the Hand's doors snap shut. One will be fucked at a power interruption. One will not.

I'd like to point out that even with catastrophic battle damage - worse then that of the IH - the emergency forcefields worked perfectly, suggesting a very, very robust and reliable system.

(and if the Voyager was equipped with SW-style shutters, Janeway wouldn't have survived long enough to ram the ship)

you could have a total power on breached section on wars ship it would sealed, this would happen with forcefields (which need constant input of power) and sure Voyager wouldn't have survived if had just the shutter, but if it both the shutter and blastdoors there wouldn't have been any difference at all

[Mr Bean]

I think that it's safe to conclude from this(and earlier) evidence hull breach containment techs in SW is better.

SW vessels don't really have hullbreach containment, they just have emergency shutters for windows. If any other part of the hull is breached, the crew is screwed. And you really consider a 2 sec difference - especially considering we've seen far better performance before - enough evidence to call it "better" ?

Err not quote, See there are the things called "BLAST DOORS" you'll see them everywhere in Star wars ships, heck some ships have them every twenty feet. They can be sealed manualy and if the section loses presure they seal themselves, they are the massive things you might or might not have noticed in A New Hope, those large foot thick doors off the Hanger on the DS

[Lord Revan]

Err not quote, See there are the things called "BLAST DOORS" you'll see them everywhere in Star wars ships, heck some ships have them every twenty feet. They can be sealed manualy and if the section loses presure they seal themselves, they are the massive things you might or might not have noticed in A New Hope, those large foot thick doors off the Hanger on the DS

don't be too hard on the, after all he failed to spot the bast doors on Invisible Hand's hangar

[Bounty]

irrelevant as I talking about shield in Nemesis (which seemed activate only after Picard had pressed a button in his chair)

Which is why I said "usually".

wrong, Star Wars have blast doors to seal of breached sections of ships (or did you forget those door that sealed the hargar)

Here's the problem as I see it; please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. If you happen to be between the blast door and the hull breach - for whatever reason - you're screwed. With a forcefield, which basically replaces the missing piece of hull, you only need to hang on for a few seconds before the room repressurizes (see Nemesis).

2. You still lose a considerable portion of your ship. If there is a hull breach in a larger area - like, say, a cargo bay - the blast doors would seal off the rest of the ship, but you can't get into the bay anymore unless you use EVA suits or fix the breach. Again, with forcefields, the negative effects are less; you can just waltz into the damaged section and inspect or repair it (like in Generations, for example).

[Mr Bean]

Here's the problem as I see it; please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. If you happen to be between the blast door and the hull breach - for whatever reason - you're screwed. With a forcefield, which basically replaces the missing piece of hull, you only need to hang on for a few seconds before the room repressurizes (see Nemesis).

Except of course, anything that can damage the hull(Many captial ships of which have a meter or more of armor plating ontop of their Hulls) would likley kill the occupants of said room

Moreover shields require enegery to run, if you have anything fun going on like your power plant is shut down or what-not, your SOL there because the force field's not going to work

Not to mention the fact blast doors, just like on modern ships don't need any power to stay closed, something force fields lack.

Oh and Wars does happen to have shields designed to keep atomspheres in. Every single hanger uses the things but despite this nice bit of technology they still prefer to use blast doors

2. You still lose a considerable portion of your ship. If there is a hull breach in a larger area - like, say, a cargo bay - the blast doors would seal off the rest of the ship,

Cargo bays tend to be interal(IE have hallways, crew quarters and what-not in between them and the hull) or tend to be the only thing there(IE Cargo carries)
Your cargo hold is not affecting your ability to fight nor your ability to move, if holds are vented thats just fine.

[Lord Revan]

Here's the problem as I see it; please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. If you happen to be between the blast door and the hull breach - for whatever reason - you're screwed. With a forcefield, which basically replaces the missing piece of hull, you only need to hang on for a few seconds before the room repressurizes (see Nemesis).

incorrect they create a barrier were the shield projector is located (there was sizible section of corridor were Data jumped out of outside the first shield (which Geordi deactivated.

2. You still lose a considerable portion of your ship. If there is a hull breach in a larger area - like, say, a cargo bay - the blast doors would seal off the rest of the ship, but you can't get into the bay anymore unless you use EVA suits or fix the breach. Again, with forcefields, the negative effects are less; you can just waltz into the damaged section and inspect or repair it (like in Generations, for example).

a loss of cargo bay is not critical during combat and after combat the breach is likely repaired.

also you seem ignore that forcefields need power physical doors don't

[Mr Bean]

also you seem ignore that forcefields need power physical doors don't

Nitpick, they can(automated doors) but if they do, they have a built in power supply independant of the ship

[Bounty]

incorrect they create a barrier were the shield projector is located (there was sizible section of corridor were Data jumped out of outside the first shield (which Geordi deactivated.

"Sizeable" ?

Pic

Looks like 10m, tops, between the two shields. And there wasn't much corridor beyond the outer shield.

a loss of cargo bay is not critical during combat and after combat the breach is likely repaired.

But repairs would be easier with a forcefield in place. And where did I argue that a cargo bay is critical during combat ? It's just an example of a larger area.

[Lord Revan]

"Sizeable" ?

Looks like 10m, tops, between the two shields. And there wasn't much corridor beyond the outer shield.

couple meters of damaged corridor are still outside the shield, also it's quite clear that Geordi couldn't put the shield anywere.

But repairs would be easier with a forcefield in place. And where did I argue that a cargo bay is critical during combat ? It's just an example of a larger area.

how would they be easier (you still need put parts of the hull were shield is, also parts of hull need to be replaced so a shield would be turned off anyway.