Split from ROTS Revelations

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-06-03 12:02pm

When Palpy told Anakin about the 'legend', it makes sense that he had to couch it in a way that didn't start ringing fire alarms and shit. In the novel, Palpatine tell's Anakin that he'd done his own research on the Force in general and the Sith/Jedi. It was this foundation that he brought up the Plagius tale.

On the other side, it's just as possible that Palpatine learned what he though was the full power of 'the life thingy' but didn't and killed Plagius before he could teach his pupil the final secrets of creating life. So Palpatine's knowledge and ability to manipulate life is slightly flawed and he can't do it like he saw his master do it.

But he can prolong his life, *perhaps where he got his transfer soul to clone body powers for you Dark Empire fans* and greatly increased his power but can't out right stop people from dying and creating little Anakins of his own.

Maybe this is why he told Anakin that they'd learn how together. Or perhaps it was just a control set on Vader. Keep your place or your woman dies, type thing.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-06-03 07:09pm

The opera scene was a huge 'Ahaaa!" moment for the entire theatre.

So bald faced obviousnesses

1) Plagius was Palpatine's master. Palpatine, if you havn't noticed is a meglomaniac (he plans to rule the Galaxy! See also the 'Unlimited Power!' quote), he could well regard anything tied up with him as a 'legend'.

2) The Sith can use the force to create life. So Anakin's conception by the midichlorians was not a spontaneous event but one orchestrated by a Sith. Plagius or Palpatine, it doesn't really matter.

3) Palpatine has all the secrets but may still need to bone up on the actual 'how' of some of them as well as having the raw power to do so. So Palpatine can well later claim to Anakin that they have much to learn if
he is to save Padme.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2005-06-03 07:14pm

Petrosjko wrote:One detail I noticed- when Anakin shot out the shield on the hanger bay, that should've promptly vented a shitload of atmosphere. However, it didn't vent enough to discomfit them when they came springing out of their fighters.

Thoughts?

droids need air? I would have figured they'd remove atmosphere from any sections of the ship that they can during combat. Especially the cavernous hangar bay. Course, this goes out the window when Skywalker and Kenobi hop out of their fighters. I have no idea why they'd go through the trouble of keeping air in the bay. obviously, the Invisible Hand wasn't designed from the start for a droid crew.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-03 07:39pm

Watched the movie again today (dang ticket prices suck! cheaper than a weeknight, but still), and noted a few more observations (sorry for any repeats, these were new for me):

The droids that get covered in "oil" actually explode a bit (like their carapaces bursting) after the flames lick up from R2D2's jets.

Bail Organa says he sees "thousands" of troopers attacking the Jedi Temple. I see on the hologram we actually see Anakin dueling somebody who appears to be an adult, not a youngling (the VD says this was the training Swordsmaster or something I think, but anyway).

General Grevious's lightsabers appear to be very very similar, if not identical to the ones used by Anakin and Obi-Wan. So SOD we could speculate this design is either very popular, Grevious has a twisted sense of humor (not to mention some nice saber crafting skills), or evidence for Lightsabers being mass produced at this time (with various styles available for the choosing, like automobiles or i-Macs).

I didn't realize that Dooku had learned some new tricks this time around. He actually levitates AND chokes Obi-Wan in the fight, before chucking his body into that railing. So there's your Jedi Outcast power made G-Level canon (Level 3 Force Grip)!

Obi-Wan seems to have learned Dooku's trick of tripping a huge object down to smash some foes (used on Grevious's Magnaguards).

Probably doesn't matter, but baby Luke doesn't open his eyes to see Padme, but then I'm not sure if Leia does either.

The clone I thought had a different face than Temuera Morrison turned out to be just my imagination, oh well. :p

R2 actually chuckles at Threepio's perdicament when he's going to be "mind wiped." What a little jerk. I bet he played some pranks and insulted him too right before the data was actually erased!

The "ray shields" thing was a bit annoying, but I guess I can live with the theory that the shields would have "burned" the Jedi had they tried to just walk slowly through them (to say nothing of their supposedly non-force sensitive Chancellor companion). Though I did like how they were all exasperated at their stupidity for getting captured in the shield with Palpatine standing their blankfaced behind them (shroud of the darkside perhaps? naaaaah).

I greatly prefer the idea of Palpatine using the Dark Side to make himself live longer than transfering his soul from worn out clone body to worn out mad clone body in secret. Perhaps in order to maintain his long lifespan, he has to drain the force energy from living beings. Perhaps in order to get this energy he prowls about and only by killing his enemies by taking their heads can he gain their Quickening and--- ok, sorry I got carried away there!

I've got the novel from the library and I'm going to read it when I get a chance, but....

Can somebody point me to that thread that "debunks" Darkstar's claims about the novelisation? 'Cause I was disappointed not to see any evidence of planetary shields in ROTS (Coruscant was a surprise attack?). I'd like to see what the explanation is in any case...

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2005-06-03 08:55pm

Cykeisme wrote:Wasn't the weapon blast coming from a hangar bay supposed to be a SPHA-T that was in a bay firing?

Considering the fact that it might displayed much more destructive capability that it should, perhaps it was hooked into to the Venator's power generation system through some internal power grid of some sort. It's possible that the limiting factor in a SPHA-T's weapon yield is its reactor, rather than its weapon.

Not necessarily. Remember the SPHA-T weapons were easily penetrating the hull of the Federation globes, and cutting deep enough to cause critical damage. Therefore, while your point might still stand, the power output of one is enough to puncture and cut through starship hulls. The CIS ships are far smaller then the Federation globes, and also have just been through an extensive battle. The capital ships themselves can inflict major damage as witnessed by Invisible Hand.

This might be a testament to the weapons emplacement's power too. Since the globes can survive a controlled re-entry, and the CIS ships can survive a controlled crash.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-03 09:32pm

Bail Organa says he sees "thousands" of troopers attacking the Jedi Temple. I see on the hologram we actually see Anakin dueling somebody who appears to be an adult, not a youngling (the VD says this was the training Swordsmaster or something I think, but anyway).

That's Cin Drallig (played by Nic Gillard.)
You can see the back of Whie's (EU character) head in that scene for a split second, although it may not be him.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-06-03 10:01pm

Vympel wrote:He did admit he didn't have the knowledge, don't you remember? He says "only one has learned it" (paraphrase) but he's sure that together they can discover the secret.

Goddamn, you think he was telling the truth?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-06-04 06:45am

He did admit he didn't have the knowledge, don't you remember?

You think if he knew he´d tell Anakin right away? "Why yes, Lord Vader, the secret to eternal life is this... *15 minutes later* ...and that´s it, really. *Yawn* Well, it´s getting rather late, I think I´ll go to bed. See you in the morning...."

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-06-04 06:56am

The clone I thought had a different face than Temuera Morrison turned out to be just my imagination, oh well. :p

Not it wasn't. there's a non Temuera Morrison credit for "Clone Trooper" in the ending credits.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-04 07:16am

Crazedwraith wrote:
The clone I thought had a different face than Temuera Morrison turned out to be just my imagination, oh well. :p
Not it wasn't. there's a non Temuera Morrison credit for "Clone Trooper" in the ending credits.

Interesting. Though it isn't the one I was thinking of. The thing is, unless we see the guy's face, it could just be a random stuntman.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-06-04 08:09am

Crazedwraith wrote: Not it wasn't. there's a non Temuera Morrison credit for "Clone Trooper" in the ending credits.

If it was "Bodie" something or other, that's the "young Jango" from AotC.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2005-06-04 11:21am

How does R2 fit in the droid socked of those Jedi fighters? It seems the ships aren't thick enough for an astromech.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-04 05:36pm

Darth Servo wrote:How does R2 fit in the droid socked of those Jedi fighters? It seems the ships aren't thick enough for an astromech.

It's supposed to literally go through the ship, since the socket is more or less a hole that goes all the way through, as the full-scale filming setpiece was made. It just seems like the yahoos who made the CGI model made the bottom half of the droid literally vanish...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-04 05:40pm

Telescoping droid bodies? Might simply be irreconcilable, but then we do have similar problems with the Falcon don't we? Not to get off topic...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-04 06:02pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Kurgan wrote:Telescoping droid bodies?
No, it's just a fuck up, plain and simple. In my opinion the times where there is a lack of a droid body on the underside of the fighter should be ignored as the error and oversight that it plainly is. No need to reconcile a screw up.

I believe I admitted as much. I forgot to put a smiley after my "explanation."

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-04 07:00pm

Kurgan wrote:So it looks like some game conventions snuck in and are now G-Level, at least for this period!

you mean the green bolts or something else?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-04 07:07pm

Yeah, what do you mean by "game conventions"?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-04 08:36pm

Green bolts, witnessed in many video games, but never onscreen from that weapon (the bolts from Chewie's crossbow previously appeared the same as shots from other OT era blasters). Also I don't ever recall a bowstring being present, but that's appeared in some of the games (Jedi Outcast for example). The game bowcastors didn't need to be "cocked" either (hence the rapid fire thing) but then we didn't see Chewie do that in the OT either.

In RotS we see a few different crossbow designs too, but that'll be easier to see out once we have the DVD.

Anyway, sorry if I wasn't clear...

The full auto thing for any SW handgun (especially stormie type "carbines") might be something too, but I hesitate to label that a game convention since I'm sure it was featured in some novel first and I just can't remember.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-04 08:40pm

Those don't really sound like game conventions.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-04 08:42pm

Bowcastors may always have been (intended, by Lucas? to be) able to fire on auto and may never have needed "cocking" but that's what the EU told us. The video games got around the "cocking" convention of the EU by saying that the weapons were "modified" so that weaker species could use them, you could fire faster, etc. (auto cocking mechanism for example in Jedi Outcast/Academy). In any case, they're now more like the video game bowcastors (not identical of course, they fire much faster in RotS and do more damage).

All I know is:

Wookiee Bowcastor in the OT: red bolts

Video game Bowcastors made since then: green bolts

RotS Bowcastors: green bolts

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-04 09:22pm

Don't forget that Mace Windu is married to Vapaad.

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2005-06-04 09:26pm

P-100 salvage droids of the TPM DVD are being used to haul crates on Coruscant.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-04 11:54pm

Droids getting smaller? Don't you mean smarter?

Granted I only just started the book (page 30), but still.

So that's two high level sources now that say Palpatine was taught by Darth Plagueis and killed him... the same Plagueis of legend! Arggh. Of course he could simply be lying, since this is Palpy telling Anakin and Anakin has no way of verifying his claim. *whew*

Vympel:

Yeah, you're right, though I'm not sure what scene(s) he's in exactly:

IMDB.com wrote:

Temuera Morrison .... Commander Cody
....
Bodie Taylor .... Clone Trooper (as Bodie 'Tihoi' Taylor)

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-06-05 01:21am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:It's supposed to literally go through the ship, since the socket is more or less a hole that goes all the way through, as the full-scale filming setpiece was made. It just seems like the yahoos who made the CGI model made the bottom half of the droid literally vanish...

There are boxes under the wings, and Artoo is supposed to fit in one of them. The problem is that it's too shallow.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2005-06-05 04:48am

For the number of weapons and proposed refire rates involved in the opening battle sequence, there was suprisingly little energy in the air.

Those miniature droids that attack Obi-wan's ship are either very tough for their size, or the cannons mounted on fighters are much wearker than we thought.

What is the explanation for ships in the opening sequence to close within spitting distance of eachother?

We should also be able to come up with some rough numbers for fighter speed through scaling of warships and footage.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Split from ROTS Revelations

To clarify:

see it in game, now see it in movie