Galactic Marines

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-06-04 07:13pm

Don't what know what this is worth, given it's a caption on an OS snapshot, but Clonetroopers are referred to as the "Galactic Marines" in the subtitle. This would seem to lend more credence to "Pax Empirica's" usage of the term "Imperial Marines" to describe Stormtroopers.

Do we hear the Clone Troopers referred to as the "Grand Army of the Republic" at all in RotS? Or could they have been switched to Marines by that time, with the Army being supplemented with recruits in the time between AotC and RotS.

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/exp ... 50603.html

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-04 07:21pm

it could also be subgroup of the GAR (meaning that assault divisions are called marines, but still part of the Grand Army of Republic).

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-04 11:06pm

It refers to the nickname of the legion, I believe, like how the Kashyyyk clones are called the Elites (or something to that effect) and Bly's are called the Star Corps, and the 501st is called Vader's Fist much later in time.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-04 11:47pm

Calluing them the Grand Army does not necessarily make them the army, as they were named such by a politician and not a military leader. There are historical examples of this, Lincoln refered to all of the Union's forces as the Grand Army (hence where Lucas stole the term from), including in that the navy and marines.

In role they are identical to marines. now it is confirmed in name.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-05 12:05am

The stormies are marines, but the clones aren't. For whatever reason, the clones of the GAR act as the army, navy, air force, and marines all in one. Makes you wonder when and why the big intertrilogy reform occurred.

Second clone war? Please?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2005-06-05 12:10am

gladius wrote:For whatever reason, the clones of the GAR act as the army, navy, air force, and marines all in one.

What makes you think so? Is there any evidence of clones piloting Republic capships or doing anything on those ships outside of firing the cannons, a considerably simpler task?

It might be a good idea to check by looking to see if there are any Jangos running around in the control pits of the Venator at the very end of the movie.

Furthermore, is there any representation of them as an occupying force that remains after the fight is over? It has been my experience that they go to where the enemies strength is greatest, wipe them out, and move on to the next hotspot.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-05 09:14pm

Heh, I've read/watched most of CW material, and yep-- they fly fighters, they pilot and crew capships, they do it all. It's incredibly irritating, but what's even more irritating is how so many authors still insist on there being only 1.2 million clones, which would be impossible given their widespread use.

Granted, there aren't clones in the crew pits at the end of RotS, which is a very good thing, but there are on the bridge of pretty much every capship in pretty much every other source.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-05 09:52pm

gladius wrote:Heh, I've read/watched most of CW material, and yep-- they fly fighters, they pilot and crew capships, they do it all. It's incredibly irritating, but what's even more irritating is how so many authors still insist on there being only 1.2 million clones, which would be impossible given their widespread use.

Granted, there aren't clones in the crew pits at the end of RotS, which is a very good thing, but there are on the bridge of pretty much every capship in pretty much every other source.

Name them. I'm looking at the comics now and not seeing them.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-05 11:43pm

Ender wrote:
gladius wrote:Heh, I've read/watched most of CW material, and yep-- they fly fighters, they pilot and crew capships, they do it all. It's incredibly irritating, but what's even more irritating is how so many authors still insist on there being only 1.2 million clones, which would be impossible given their widespread use.

Granted, there aren't clones in the crew pits at the end of RotS, which is a very good thing, but there are on the bridge of pretty much every capship in pretty much every other source.
Name them. I'm looking at the comics now and not seeing them.

The only time I've ever seen a Clone Command crew was in the Clone Wars cartoons, and even then, it was not clear if they were actually commanding the ship. There are non-clone bridge crews in several comics, the Medstar series, and the ROTS novelization.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-05 11:48pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Ender wrote:
gladius wrote:Heh, I've read/watched most of CW material, and yep-- they fly fighters, they pilot and crew capships, they do it all. It's incredibly irritating, but what's even more irritating is how so many authors still insist on there being only 1.2 million clones, which would be impossible given their widespread use.

Granted, there aren't clones in the crew pits at the end of RotS, which is a very good thing, but there are on the bridge of pretty much every capship in pretty much every other source.
Name them. I'm looking at the comics now and not seeing them.
The only time I've ever seen a Clone Command crew was in the Clone Wars cartoons, and even then, it was not clear if they were actually commanding the ship. There are non-clone bridge crews in several comics, the Medstar series, and the ROTS novelization.

In which case, we've seen them operating small guns (IRL marines will amn 50 cals on ships), fly fighters (IRL marines have harriers), and act as infantry (duh). Looks identical to the marinerole to me.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-05 11:58pm

In Republic #69 clones are seen as the bridge crew of an Acclamator; in Obsession #4 they're the bridge crew of a Venator. The only other time a bridge is shown in the comics is in Republic #64, where the crew is of non-clones (and the captain is Pellaeon, oddly enough). In Clone Wars Chapter 22 the crew of a Venator is all clones.

As a side note, it bugged me in Republic Commando that the Delta's coordinator or whatever was also a clone, who wore full armor despite being (presumably) far away from the battlefield.

EDIT: Dismissing the fact that clones fly fighters because "real life marines do that too" is reaching a bit. The clones are the only fighter pilots shown in almost all sources (excepting, of course, vague references to non-clone pilots in the ICS) including the movies. In real life, marine aircraft do not make up the main part of a fighter force.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-06 12:02am

(and the captain is Pellaeon, oddly enough).

I like Pellaeon, but this bugged me. It must be his father or something, because if it is him, he would be extremely old in the NJO, like ninety or older.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2005-06-06 12:09am

Pure Sabacc wrote:
(and the captain is Pellaeon, oddly enough).
I like Pellaeon, but this bugged me. It must be his father or something, because if it is him, he would be extremely old in the NJO, like ninety or older.

He IS that old.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-06 12:10am

Chris OFarrell wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
(and the captain is Pellaeon, oddly enough).
I like Pellaeon, but this bugged me. It must be his father or something, because if it is him, he would be extremely old in the NJO, like ninety or older.
He IS that old.

He's suppossed to be in his teens/twenties during the clone wars. In that issue he looks late 30s, early 40s.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-06 12:19am

Early forties, I'd say. He's grey and all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/ ... c64-05.gif

Maybe he's just platinum blonde.

Anyway, regardless of his age, it seems absurd that he wouldn't be promoted for thirty five or so years, and still stay in the fleet.

His actions in the comic certainly are in character though. He's ordering a retreat.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-06 12:23am

Anyway, regardless of his age, it seems absurd that he wouldn't be promoted for thirty five or so years, and still stay in the fleet.

I forget, what is his rank in that appearence? Seems to me like he was actually demoted.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-06 12:26am

He's a captain in the comic.

You're right, though; he would have to have been demoted, as he was the second in command of a star destroyer at Endor. Unless of course he was serving under an admiral of some sort.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 03:03pm

Clone bridge crews certainly make no sense, it's a waste of clones.

I'm guessing that they're supposed to have above-average reflexes, spatial awareness and coordination, due to engineering and/or Jango Fett's natural attributes. Combined with their expendability, it's easy to see where they should be used.
Soldiers, fighter pilots and gunners I can accept. The former two, especially, make sense, since those are jobs that someone directly in harm's way.. perfect job for expendable toy soldiers.

Would I be wrong in saying that there's a possibility that the organization of the Galactic Republic (and Empire's) armed forces might not conform to the standards that are necessary to draw analogies between theirs and ours?

Whatever qualifies as their Army and Marines, and whatever their doctrined roles are, perhaps they're both filled with cloned soldiers.

gladius wrote:Anyway, regardless of his age, it seems absurd that he wouldn't be promoted for thirty five or so years, and still stay in the fleet.

His actions in the comic certainly are in character though. He's ordering a retreat.

I chuckled when I read that

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-07 03:14pm

gladius wrote:As a side note, it bugged me in Republic Commando that the Delta's coordinator or whatever was also a clone, who wore full armor despite being (presumably) far away from the battlefield.

he was pretty to the battlefield, what I would have wanted is him to shown as something other then hologram during the game.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-06-07 03:15pm

gladius wrote: As a side note, it bugged me in Republic Commando that the Delta's coordinator or whatever was also a clone, who wore full armor despite being (presumably) far away from the battlefield.

On Geonosis he was aboard one of the gunships, so it makes sense that he was wearing his armour there. And, IIRC, he was in the gunship during the Kashykk mission as well. No excuse for the mission on the Prosecutor though.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 03:19pm

Maybe he was getting ready to board the command bridge?

MandangoWarrior · Post by **MandangoWarrior** » 2005-06-07 03:25pm

Ender wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
Ender wrote:Name them. I'm looking at the comics now and not seeing them.
The only time I've ever seen a Clone Command crew was in the Clone Wars cartoons, and even then, it was not clear if they were actually commanding the ship. There are non-clone bridge crews in several comics, the Medstar series, and the ROTS novelization.
In which case, we've seen them operating small guns (IRL marines will amn 50 cals on ships), fly fighters (IRL marines have harriers), and act as infantry (duh). Looks identical to the marinerole to me.

Sorry to jack this thread but the navy operates the .50 cal at least we did on my ship (I was a .50 cal gunner)

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2005-06-08 12:02am

MandangoWarrior wrote:

Sorry to jack this thread but the navy operates the .50 cal at least we did on my ship (I was a .50 cal gunner)

Ender is probably refering to Amphibs and CV/Ns...the only ships that have large Marine contingents. In those cases, it would make a lot more sense having the Marines onboard man the Machine guns, rather than divert the (relatively) fewer GMs and guys who have .50 cal gunner as their collateral to handle it.

As an aside on my vessel pretty much the only department that wasn't on a .50 cal/M60/25 mm during sea &anchor or SSDFwas engineering. Hell, one of my Coworkers station at Sea & Anchor is .50 cal Gunner...and he's a CT.

Of course, CG's are different birds than Amphibs (and to a lesser degree Carriers) in that we don't have a lot of Marines sitting around doing nothing.

In the SWverse, most of the larger ships we see have Stormtrooper/Clonetrooper contingents, which I suspect is why we see them manning guns. On any thing smaller than Victorys (like, say, "Light Crusiers") there isn't much in the way of a large Marine contingent.

What ship were you on?

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-08 01:26am

Ah, that sheds some light on things in the real world, and also helps explain why there are clones manning the weapon batteries.

Aside from the fact that they've got good genetics (reflexes, perception etc), it makes sense that since there are so many of them on a ship and so few non-clone crewmembers (just the bridge crew, likely), clones would serve the role of gunners as well.
As I recall the clones operating the weapons were wearing the same armor as clone infantry.. so they may in fact be clone infantry.

MandangoWarrior · Post by **MandangoWarrior** » 2005-06-08 01:37am

Lonestar wrote:
MandangoWarrior wrote:

Sorry to jack this thread but the navy operates the .50 cal at least we did on my ship (I was a .50 cal gunner)

Ender is probably refering to Amphibs and CV/Ns...the only ships that have large Marine contingents. In those cases, it would make a lot more sense having the Marines onboard man the Machine guns, rather than divert the (relatively) fewer GMs and guys who have .50 cal gunner as their collateral to handle it.

As an aside on my vessel pretty much the only department that wasn't on a .50 cal/M60/25 mm during sea &anchor or SSDFwas engineering. Hell, one of my Coworkers station at Sea & Anchor is .50 cal Gunner...and he's a CT.

Of course, CG's are different birds than Amphibs (and to a lesser degree Carriers) in that we don't have a lot of Marines sitting around doing nothing.

In the SWverse, most of the larger ships we see have Stormtrooper/Clonetrooper contingents, which I suspect is why we see them manning guns. On any thing smaller than Victorys (like, say, "Light Crusiers") there isn't much in the way of a large Marine contingent.

What ship were you on?

The only ships that marines are in are amphibs. I was on the Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71 and all the carriers got rid of the MARDET (Marine Detachment) because we dont carry nuclear weapons anymore. I worked as an Aviation Ordnanceman and one of my jobs during GQ was manning the .50 cal.