Dark side Corruption

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-06 01:45pm

After ROTS it's clear that so called "Dark side Corruption" has (at least) the following symptoms (not nesserly all at once): acclerated aging, the "Sith eyes" and some sort scaring on the body.

All of these witnessed on Darth Sidious and Darth Vader (pre-suit) had the eyes and beginings of the acclerated aging. Darth Revan and Darth Malak (EU characters) had at least the scaring and the eyes and probaly the aging as well

So what do you think?
Do you have anything to add?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-06 01:47pm

Lord Revan wrote:Do you have anything to add?

Nope.

Seriously though, that is pretty much it.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-06-06 01:50pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Nope.

Then shut up.

To Revan: and? but? so? therefore?

You're just stating the obvious here. Personally I wonder very much how using the dark side chnages you're eye colour though...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-06 01:57pm

The only anomaly then would be Count Dooku. No Sith eyes, no scarring, no accelerated aging.

Unless...

YODA: Ah yes Count Dooku. Left the Order at the age of 20 he did. Miss him I do.

OBI-WAN: B-But, that was only 10 years ago!

ANAKIN: And the dude doesn't look a day over 80!

JEDI COUNCIL MEMBERS: !!!!!!!!!!!

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-06 01:57pm

Crazedwraith wrote:To Revan: and? but? so? therefore?

You're just stating the obvious here. Personally I wonder very much how using the dark side chnages you're eye colour though...

if we go by KOTOR series the eyes are first thing to change, but why this (or other symptoms) happen, I don't know, the Force has many mysteries (some due poor research and some due lack of data) and I don't wan't to gues why this happens

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-06 02:01pm

Kurgan wrote:The only anomaly then would be Count Dooku. No Sith eyes, no scarring, no accelerated aging.

Unless...

YODA: Ah yes Count Dooku. Left the Order at the age of 20 he did. Miss him I do.

OBI-WAN: B-But, that was only 10 years ago!

ANAKIN: And the dude doesn't look a day over 80!

JEDI COUNCIL MEMBERS: !!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem.. Senator/chancellor Palpatine (pre Order 66)

we know that force user can alter their apprence to suit their purposes (for all we know we never saw Darth Tyranus' true face (only the face of Count Dooku the ex-Jedi Master)

Drunk Monkey · Post by **Drunk Monkey** » 2005-06-06 02:12pm

Couldn’t Dooko and the emperor have gotten plastic surgery to hide there Sithnes.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-06 02:16pm

Drunk Monkey wrote:Couldn’t Dooko and the emperor have gotten plastic surgery to hide there Sithnes.

It's Dooku and it wouldn't have helped as the damage is not just cosmetic (they would be like the Son'a from ST:Insurrection)

Drunk Monkey · Post by **Drunk Monkey** » 2005-06-06 02:20pm

Lord Revan wrote:
Drunk Monkey wrote:Couldn’t Dooko and the emperor have gotten plastic surgery to hide there Sithnes.
It's Dooku and it wouldn't have helped as the damage is not just cosmetic (they would be like the Son'a from ST:Insurrection)

1st Please don’t remind me of that vile film.

2nd All those guys have to do is hide the cosmetic damage, while on the inside they remain the same twisted abominations of there old selves.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-06 02:20pm

Lord Revan wrote:Ahem.. Senator/chancellor Palpatine (pre Order 66)

we know that force user can alter their apprence to suit their purposes (for all we know we never saw Darth Tyranus' true face (only the face of Count Dooku the ex-Jedi Master)

Okay, so you're saying his severed head could have been of this shrivelled up prune with red/yellow eyes? My (failed) joke was that Dooku's appearance IS of the rapidly aged guy. He's 30, but looks 80.

Maul has Sith eyes all the time, iirc, as did the Emperor in the OT (now with the revised 2004 edition this includes ESB). Anakin displays them at times, but I got the impression from ROTS that this appeared during times of intense emotion/dark side focus rather than being the default for a Sith. Or do they "always" have Sith eyes and use the Force Disguise (tm) to make them appear like normal eyes?

If it were a disguise I wonder why Dooku would have any reason to use it at this point.

PS: Sideous's eyes first turn to "Sith Eyes" IIRC as soon as he is "deformed"... (so perhaps they are hidden by the disguise!) but I could be wrong, I tried to watch that scene carefully.

PPS: Yeah, the plastic surgery thing is a fun idea. I was wondering when the Teaser trailer came out if perhaps Dooku was wearing tinted contacts and using eye drops (get the red out!) this whole time!

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-06 02:23pm

Perhaps Dooku wasn't as "deep" into the Dark Side as Vader and (even further) Sideous was. Huh? Ever think of that?

Or perhaos Dooku was using the Force to keep an effort up to not be physically corrupted.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-06 02:24pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Perhaps Dooku wasn't as "deep" into the Dark Side as Vader and (even further) Sideous was. Huh? Ever think of that?

I've heard that explanation used quite often actually, so yes I have thought of it. So Dooku is less into the Dark Side than Maul? And it wouldn't be based on time either, since Anakin was a Sith for a far shorter time than Maul/Dooku supposedly were and he was already exhibiting these signs.

An interesting idea about keeping themselves from being physically corrupted with the Force, I guess the same could be true of Palpatine (he just didn't have enough power to hold it back at that point or got too distracted). Is the process reversable? Who knows...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-06 02:26pm

I would say so. Dooku seems to have only been a Sith for ten years, but also had to maintain his role to the public and private interests. Maul however was trained as a Sith all of his life, but still not as powerful as Sideous was. Anakin also had the highest potential, and could have therefore been stronger than either Maul or Dooku.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-06 02:28pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I would say so. Dooku seems to have only been a Sith for ten years, but also had to maintain his role to the public and private interests. Maul however was trained as a Sith all of his life, but still not as powerful as Sideous was.

No, I'm asking whether you feel Maul was more powerful in the Dark Side than Dooku. Palpatine had more of a public role than Dooku, since he had to impress the Senate and the whole galaxy, not just a handful of businessmen meeting in dark castles and such.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-06 02:30pm

Vader isn't truly fall until the "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" scene, so would have normal eyes when not consentrating on the Dark side. Sidious probaly hid his eyes like rest of the symptoms (all of symptoms come at once after he's "deformed")

Dooku probaly had "Sith Eyes", but his them (if looked he's 250 year old who has yellow/red eyes , it wouldn't be so easy convince the separtist to back him up, would it?).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-06 02:31pm

Yeah, nevermind. That was actually what I was going for. While Dooku was probably a better Force-user than Maul, he didn't seem to be as deep into the Dark Side.

Dooku==>Maul===>Vader====Sideous

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-06 02:36pm

I'm not sure where you get that though (one of the novels?), that's what I'm saying.

Isn't Sith Lightning supposed to be pretty advanced (or maybe it isn't, the EU seems to give it to everyone)? We're lead to believe that the only reason Vader can't use it is because it would screw with his robot suit.

I thought:

Maul < Tyrannus < Vader < Sideous

In terms of raw power and dark side mastery. This way makes it out to be that Dooku is just a Jedi who dabbled around with a couple of Sith parlor tricks, and yet Yoda can sense the Dark Side in him and he considers himself more powerful than any Jedi (as if he himself were no longer one)? Granted Dooku appears to have a huge ego, but still.

I don't know if the Seperatist leaders really know much about the Sith other than what Sideous has told them (we don't even know if he ever met with them physically, they just see him with the hood on in holograms). For all we know it's classified Jedi info.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2005-06-06 10:06pm

Lord Revan wrote: Dooku probaly had "Sith Eyes", but his them (if looked he's 250 year old who has yellow/red eyes , it wouldn't be so easy convince the separtist to back him up, would it?).

conisdering how some of the aliens look, would it even raise an eyebrow?

Srynerson · Post by **Srynerson** » 2005-06-07 12:08am

Based on Dooku's character and attitude as shown in LoE and the RotS novelization, I would guess that he either was disguising the corruption or actively diverting some of his energies to mitigate it. As portrayed in the books, Dooku had the true spirit of an aristocrat; maintaining his outward appearance would be consistent with that.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 01:48am

Maybe it only shows when drawing deeply on the dark side (Sith lightning), while if they merely augment their powers with the dark side (force grip\crush, amped up Force push) they can hide it.

Think Dragonball- whenever they show their “True power” after the screaming they change physically and start glowing.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-07 02:18am

We've never seen it from Dooku though, even when he's giving his "all" in terms of power. He genuinely seemed to be trying to overwhelm Yoda, and yet he failed... no Sith eyes.

And when he was fighting in ROTS again for his life (though he probably didn't think he was going to lose), no Sith eyes. And even with the fear in his face when he was about to decapitated, no Sith eyes...

As to the Aristocrat thing, big deal. Palpatine lived in luxury, enjoyed the good life, was a speciesist (or force sensitivist, whatever) and rich... he's the Supreme Chancellor after all. Does he have to be a barbarian? Does he short his food and belch loudly in people's faces? Granted, he has poor oral hygiene, but aside from that... I don't see the big difference. If anything he's got as many bad guy quirks as Dooku, just that he has the power to backup his ego (well to a point, he still gets his in the end) and can fool people a little easier... but that was his job, to draw people out so Sideous's plan could come about.

Is this like an RPG where your character achieves changes at certain stages? Oops, you're a Level 10 Sith Lord, here's your red eyes! Oops, Level 15, here's your maniacal laugh. Level 50! Congratulation! You're now Pruneface!

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 02:30am

I thought that around AOTC Dooku knew very little of the sith teaching.

That is he knew some of the better tricks (lightning) but his saber style was still classic Jedi, and he was trying to balance himself between the Dark side and “Classic” force, believing that was the true path to enlightenment (before he became a xenophobe due to DS corruption).

Maybe it’s possible to augment one’s dark side power by draining Life energy (read- shriveling up into a prune), if so it matches what Palpy was doing in the fight against Mace, making it a very useful Secret weapon for UNLIMITED POWER!!!, something that Palpy would definetly not want to teach to an apprentice (Dooku) that he’s planning to eliminate up-front.

Also who needs Sith eyes when youve got a Rancor for a face (maybe it is like an RPG with each level of effect overriding the previous one)?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-07 02:53am

Hey, Bookworm, please check your PMs.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-06-07 03:32am

The whole "corruption" thing is probably a consequence of overuse of the dark side - either through overly-prolonged use, or by drawing on too much at any given time. One might assume that any Dark Jedi has a "capacity" (based on raw power/ability, as well as training/skill/knowledge/discipline, etc.) that dictates their ability to "safely" tap the Force.

It may not strictly be limited to Dark Siders either - we know that Dorsk 81 "tapped" too far into the light side and crisped himself pretty well. The difference may lie in that a Dark Sider by nature draws on the force in an irrational, unpredictable, and thus more uncontrolled manner - meaning that the chance of "overuse" grows greater.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 05:24am

Perhaps the eyes have more to do with emotional state than with actual "power" (combat prowess).

Darth Tyranus always seemed pretty calm for a user of the Dark Side, whereas Maul seemed to be angry all the damn time. Sidious, as we know, is an evil bastard but was hiding it deliberately most of the time.. but once he reveals himself, he's got permanently yellow eyes.

So far, pre-NOOOO" Anakin is the only chap who swaps back and forth between yellow eyes and regular eyes, so this is the best point to analyze.. can anyone remember what was happening during the moments where Anakin's eyes turn yellow?