Dark side Corruption

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-07 05:26am

Vader had yellow eyes while he was slaughtering the leaders of the Confederacy and when he was trying to crawl up the embankment, both before and after he caught on fire. and IIRC, long afterwards, before he was picked up by Sideous and still trying to climb up.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 05:39am

Didnt the novelization say that he was plunging into the well of the dark side and gaining strength quickly?

He was probably using the dark side in his fight with Obi-Wan considering how aggresive he was not to mention the fact that he was practically frothing at the mouth during the whole fight.
Also i’d say that using your hate and rage to stay alive after being flambed counts as some serious DS mojo.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 06:27am

Odd that Vader's yellow eyes didn't appear during the duel with Obi-Wan.

Hrm, I'm having trouble making sense of the timing of Vader's yellow eyes (or lack thereof) tbh. The eye color doesn't seem to be consistent with regard to the events that Anakin/Vader is experiencing at any particular moment.

As an aside, I'm guessing that later on, he has yellow eyes behind his black mask all the time, up until the point where he tosses the Emperor over the railing. Would anyone disagree?

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2005-06-07 07:15am

Quick toss in explination for Dooku's lack of the dark and glowing... He's wearing contacts

Sometimes folks I think it just that simple, it makes sense for a Sith to hide his Sithyness

Srynerson · Post by **Srynerson** » 2005-06-07 09:40am

Kurgan wrote:As to the Aristocrat thing, big deal. Palpatine lived in luxury, enjoyed the good life, was a speciesist (or force sensitivist, whatever) and rich... he's the Supreme Chancellor after all. Does he have to be a barbarian? Does he short his food and belch loudly in people's faces? Granted, he has poor oral hygiene, but aside from that... I don't see the big difference.

I don't have the novels at hand to quote you passages, but suffice it to say for the moment: Power + Wealth + Elitism does not automatically equal Aristocratic.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 09:55am

Yup,
Dooku only went "Foul sub-human beasts" after being exposed to the dark side enough, in Dark journey (The Yoda book) he actually fells some affection for his master (Before Sidious intervenes) and doesnt seem xenophobic.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 03:14pm

Mr Bean wrote:Sometimes folks I think it just that simple, it makes sense for a Sith to hide his Sithyness

That goes nicely for Tyranus and Sidious indeed, but Vader is still an oddity.
The correlation between appearances of yellow eyes and his emotional or physical state at any given moment still seems inconsistent.

Btw, was Darth Sidious really "Speciesist" or is that an EU idea inferred from the lack of non-humans in the Imperial ranks? His first apprentice that we know of was an angry red Zabrak.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 03:21pm

Whom he refered to as "that Animal Maul".

However Palpatine probably went "speciest" just to garner a large popular power base among the human population.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-07 03:30pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:Whom he refered to as "that Animal Maul".

However Palpatine probably went "speciest" just to garner a large popular power base among the human population.

I think Sidious was somewhat speciest to begin with (there was no (near/pseudo/baseline)Humans in the separtist ruling council, for example), but I think he's not above of using non-human to further his goals.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 03:34pm

He made sure that the only human with the seperatists was a jedi knight,

Even then most of the war crimes were carried out either by his alien fallen lakeys, grievous (an alien cyborg) or the distinctly un-humanoid members of the council.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 03:49pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:However Palpatine probably went "speciest" just to garner a large popular power base among the human population.

This makes sense.
Is there any further indication from the movies that Sidious was a human supremacist?

the .303 bookworm wrote:Whom he refered to as "that Animal Maul".

Tbh if Maul was a human, but did precisely the same things he did in TPM (See Jedi! Attack! Snarl! Foam!), the derogatory name ("that animal Maul") would still fit.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-07 03:53pm

Tbh if Maul was a human, but did precisely the same things he did in TPM (See Jedi! Attack! Snarl! Foam!), the derogatory name ("that animal Maul") would still fit.

He was a Iridonian Zabrak actually.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 03:56pm

Golly, sir, would you like to look up the dictionary definition of the word "if"?

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-07 03:59pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:He made sure that the only human with the seperatists was a jedi knight.

a Former Jedi Master to exact

Even then most of the war crimes were carried out either by his alien fallen lakeys, grievous (an alien cyborg) or the distinctly un-humanoid members of the council.

it was in ROTS novelization (IIRC) that there was a reason why tre leaders (apart of Dooku (a (dark) Jedi)) of CIS were non-human

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 04:01pm

Lord Revan wrote:it was in ROTS novelization (IIRC) that there was a reason why tre leaders (apart of Dooku (a (dark) Jedi)) of CIS were non-human

I haven't read the RotS novelization.. what was the reason?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 04:04pm

Where do you think i got it from

.

Also the whole Xenophobia would fit in well with palpatines deck of cards approach to running the empire.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-07 04:05pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:it was in ROTS novelization (IIRC) that there was a reason why tre leaders (apart of Dooku (a (dark) Jedi)) of CIS were non-human
I haven't read the RotS novelization.. what was the reason?

what do think

. It never said out right, but speciest agenda is implied.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-07 04:19pm

Cykeisme wrote:Golly, sir, would you like to look up the dictionary definition of the word "if"?

Misread, I apologize.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-07 04:24pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:Where do you think i got it from .

you didn't say so and somebody might want to know were did that come from.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2005-06-07 04:50pm

the .303 bookworm wrote: Also i’d say that using your hate and rage to stay alive after being flambed counts as some serious DS mojo.

There was a sith lord in KOTOR2 who basically held himself together with the Dark Side as I recall.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-07 04:53pm

SylasGaunt wrote:There was a sith lord in KOTOR2 who basically held himself together with the Dark Side as I recall.

Darth Sion.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 05:04pm

Was Chancellor Palpatine's speciest leanings so well-know that the Separatists (in their formative years) were aware of it? I thought he had painted himself as a benevolent super-nice guy that everyone on the Senate loved, human and non-human alike.

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Cykeisme wrote:Golly, sir, would you like to look up the dictionary definition of the word "if"?
Misread, I apologize.

No problem <3

Admiral Felire · Post by **Admiral Felire** » 2005-06-07 07:00pm

Btw, was Darth Sidious really "Speciesist" or is that an EU idea inferred from the lack of non-humans in the Imperial ranks? His first apprentice that we know of was an angry red Zabrak.

I have mentioned this before, but there is no evidence directly in the movies that describe Palpatine and his Empire as specisist or sexist. It is an EU phenomeon that came about because they want the Empire to be super evil without any good points. This is not how things work.

Fact is that we haven't seen any aliens in the Republic space navy either. In Episode I the Justice ship was crewed by humans, Episode II and II it was human clones. Thus, we could say that the Galactic Republic was also speciesist. But, if I did that than I would be guessing on little to no information. It is the same with the Empire that later came about. We only see a tiny tiny fraction of the vast Imperial military. How can we speak for the entire military when all we see is one tiny fleet. Its making conclusions without backing it up with facts.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-08 01:27am

That's pretty much what I suspected. Wanted to check if anyone could back that up.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-08 02:10am

Well, I've always supported the theory that the Empire is in fact sexist and Xenophobic (as support by the EU.) The films do not contradict this in any way, Just because Palpay has alien advisors doesnt mean he wont have them killed as soon as he gains enough power to do so without compramising his master plan. Its all about keepiing up appearences.

By the way, I'm not sure of the canonocity of the movie section of the SW.com databank entries, but look at the bottom paragraph in the Ackbar entry....

http://www.starwars.com/databank/charac ... index.html