Jesus vs. Horus

Rocker5150 · Post by **Rocker5150** » 2005-06-07 01:04pm

I was debating my friend and mentioned how the stories about the life of Jesus are practically identical to that of the Egyptian God Horus. The first thing he said was that I was making it up in some attempt to disprove his beliefs. Now I haven't done extensive research yet, but I doubt the Jesus/Horus comparison is totally unfounded. My challenge to him was to explain how, if Christianity is to be believed, their lives could possibly be so similiar. I more or less said that if the stories of Jesus are not unique, then the religion completly falls apart. This is a possibility that he cannot even consider. The discussion began with him asking me for proof of this (meaning literally handing him a slab of hieroglyphics he could understand), and ended with him telling me that NO evidence could change his mindset. That there is nothing I could present to him that would give him pause.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

It seems futile to even discuss this with my friend, but does anyone have a suggestion or know anything about the topic? I should probably forget it, but for some reason I am drawn to confront him.....I can't help it!

-Kevin

Drunk Monkey · Post by **Drunk Monkey** » 2005-06-07 01:10pm

Unfortunately your friend is to far gone the Dark Path to be turned back to logic and reason.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-06-07 01:23pm

Am I the only one who pictured the Messiah going toe-to-toe with the Imperium's very first Chaos Space Marine?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-06-07 01:25pm

Drunk Monkey wrote:Unfortunately your friend is to far gone the Dark Path to be turned back to logic and reason.

What fascinating insight you posess on this subject, we are all better informed for this posting.

Anyhoo, there are more paralells for Jesus than Horus, Mithra being even closer. Crucifixion, resurection, the whole nine yards, apparently. Try Googling up some info on Mithraism...

Sacrifice and resurrection, it's a recurrent theme in mythology, and I think that without any clear documented evidence drawing a conclusion that they're derivative of one another can only be speculation. Not entirely groundless, but speculation still.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 02:40pm

Christians ripped of just about every previous religion.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2005-06-07 02:40pm

White Haven wrote:Am I the only one who pictured the Messiah going toe-to-toe with the Imperium's very first Chaos Space Marine?

That damn Traitor Primarch? Yep, that's what I was expecting when I first clicked on this thread.

And to draw up another interesting parallel, look up Akhenaten's Cult of the Sun vs. Jewish prayers to YHVH. The similarities are disturbing

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-06-07 02:48pm

White Haven wrote:Am I the only one who pictured the Messiah going toe-to-toe with the Imperium's very first Chaos Space Marine?

Nope, I forgot I was in SLAM. Amusing mental picture.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-06-07 02:52pm

Drunk Monkey wrote:Unfortunately your friend is to far gone the Dark Path to be turned back to logic and reason.

I think I would prefer it if you didn't call my religion the "Dark Path." God's not the problem, its just part of the deluded fan club that truly has not found him.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 03:01pm

Yup,
I believe utterly in god but must religous people out there would call me a heretic.

In jesus's case, he was (probably) a prophet (like moses) with great PR (james,paul,josh..) who ended up being fundie'ized,
do you really think that he meant to burn people alive when he said that they would "burn in hell"?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-06-07 03:05pm

The Guid wrote:
Drunk Monkey wrote:Unfortunately your friend is to far gone the Dark Path to be turned back to logic and reason.
I think I would prefer it if you didn't call my religion the "Dark Path." God's not the problem, its just part of the deluded fan club that truly has not found him.

I don't think he was referring to Christianity as the "Dark Path", but rather, fundamentalism.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 03:08pm

If so then yeah.
Heretics rule.

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-06-07 03:11pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
The Guid wrote:
Drunk Monkey wrote:Unfortunately your friend is to far gone the Dark Path to be turned back to logic and reason.
I think I would prefer it if you didn't call my religion the "Dark Path." God's not the problem, its just part of the deluded fan club that truly has not found him.
I don't think he was referring to Christianity as the "Dark Path", but rather, fundamentalism.

Oh... right. That's fine by me. Just wanted to post to make sure nobody thought I was a fundamentalist even though it might look like a pointless post.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-06-07 03:31pm

One really obvious parrallel is between Zoroastrianism and Judaism. Zoraster and Moses both go on a mountaing top and are both given a set of laws. Total rip-off. Problem is, I don't know which came first.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-06-07 03:33pm

Your friend claims no evidence will effect him, but if you continue to present, you will probably plant a seed of doubt. If you get into arguments like this again, present your evidence, and back up everything; eventually, you may reach him.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-06-07 03:42pm

Obviously, it's not very easy to back up things to this guy, him being so close-minded. That's why it's so much harder to hold a the rational opinion, because, in order to be consistant, you need to back up everything you say with excruciating detail.

As Bill Waterson once said, "Most ignorance is willful."

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2005-06-07 03:42pm

There's also a strong correlation between Krishnu, a Hindu figure, and Jesus. Look that up. That one's interesting...

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-06-07 03:53pm

wolveraptor wrote:One really obvious parrallel is between Zoroastrianism and Judaism. Zoraster and Moses both go on a mountaing top and are both given a set of laws. Total rip-off. Problem is, I don't know which came first.

Zoroastrianism is one of the oldest known religions, and it's certainly older than Judiasm.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-06-07 03:53pm

It's Krishna. Unless you mean Vishnu. Vishnu appears in multiple avatars as the preserver of the universe. Any time some baddy is about to destroy it, he'll in some form, like a boar, a fish, or whatever, and save us. Just like superman, only more all-powerful. It's called Dashavatarum. Really crazy stuff.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2005-06-07 03:57pm

White Haven wrote:Am I the only one who pictured the Messiah going toe-to-toe with the Imperium's very first Chaos Space Marine?

It's why I clicked on this thread.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-07 03:59pm

Jesus was a rip off of the Emperor of man

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-06-07 04:34pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:Jesus was a rip off of the Emperor of man

But... but the Emperor was Turkish. Jesus is white!

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2005-06-07 04:36pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:Jesus was a rip off of the Emperor of man

There's good reason to believe that the mythical figure of Jesus was borrowed heavily from Mithra (the Persian/Roman deity, and as this thread indicates, Horus (the Egyptian deity.) This ignores that a number of other Greco-Roman deities died and were resurrected, and the concept of virgin birth was one the Greeks knew very well, as some of their prominent mythical heroes were born of trysts between virgin mothers and the gods.

Also, the Jews of the time were heavily influenced by Persian religion and mythology, especially the good versus evil theme that was espoused by the Zoroasterian reformation of the Persian pantheon (which left the god of the skies as the Good God, and the god of darkness as the Bad God.) Also influenced by the Persians were the Hindus and Chinese to the far east, and more importantly, the Romans.

So the myth of Jesus already borrowed heavily from the religious beliefs of the peoples with the most cultural, spiritual, and secular influence. (There is no objective evidence that Jesus himself ever actually lived, or had even the fraction of the influence attributed to him. Especially as all the writings about the man are second or third-hand accounts that didn't even turn up until the better part of a century after his death. Not to mention that the behavior of some of the actors in the myth are inconsistent with what they would've actually done. For example, Pontius Pilate was described as reluctant to kill Jesus, when it was the man's job to execute criminals, and what records exist of Pilate indicate he would've probably had an obvious rabble-rouser like Jesus killed without a second thought.)

We also have to remember that the Pauline tradition of Christianity was propagated by a Greek (Saul of Tarsis aka Saint Paul) and spread into Rome, due (likely in no small part) to its remarkable similarity to Mithraism being practiced in the Empire. Had that not happened, it is very likely that the fundies SD.net denizens would be arguing against today would be Mithraic, instead of Christian.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-06-07 05:33pm

Nitpick: The God of Fire in the Zoroastrianism was the good guy, not sky. Ahura-Mazda, IIRC.

Rocker5150 · Post by **Rocker5150** » 2005-06-07 06:18pm

Thanks for all the great replies! I do think that my friend could be brought back into the realm of reason, but it often takes me massive research to be able to properly disassemble a single argument. Since I try to be as accurate as possible and am usually required by him to demonstrate more evidence than in the Peterson case, it can be quite frustrating! What is sad is that the only things he presents to me are vague Biblical refrences......

-Kevin

Drunk Monkey · Post by **Drunk Monkey** » 2005-06-07 07:23pm

The Guid wrote:
Drunk Monkey wrote:Unfortunately your friend is to far gone the Dark Path to be turned back to logic and reason.
I think I would prefer it if you didn't call my religion the "Dark Path." God's not the problem, its just part of the deluded fan club that truly has not found him.

It is not religion witch I was referring to as the dark path, it was fundamentalism and the horrors people will do when they believe there doing good. For example fundamentalism caused 9/11, the crusades, the inquisition, and the enslavement of many races and cultures.