Main Batteries on Invisible Hand

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-06-07 03:42pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Jadeite wrote:
Darksider wrote:Why would the Sepratists do that?

This is not Star Trek, where navies are stupid enough to try to board ships in the middle of a battle.
Uh, actually, there were boarding actions going on during the battle.
If your refering to the Clone Wars episode, Tiin's ship was about to explode, and the CIS cruiser they were fighting had its shields down. Better to board then sit in an escape pod and get blasted.

At one point you can see a Venator docked with a Lucrehulk during the battle, and it's been stated that it was a boaridng action.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-07 03:44pm

Also, they had a Jedi Master with them to expedite the abandonment of their own vessel and the procurement of another.
It's not an everyday occurrance, and certainly not standard procedure. If their own Venator was still operational, they would have simply opened fire on the Separatist ship's unshielded hull and blasted it to itty bitty pieces.

Oh, extending on my idea that those weapons may be ion cannons (curving trajectories due to ship acceleration etc)..
Although blaster-type cannons (turbolasers) use tibanna gas supplied through some sort of distribution system, perhaps ion cannons require a supply of a different sort of matter, with an attribute that makes their delivery more suitable in little canisters?

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2005-06-07 03:45pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Based on what white_rabbit said, I'd accept their being ion cannons except for the curving trajectories that their proejctiles display. Aside from the curvature, I don't see a problem with it being a weapon of a similar type (but smaller scale) than the one on Hoth, that fired blobby projectiles o' doom.
I have to watch the movie again (this weekend, likely) but is it possible that the apparently curving trajectories are due to the Separatist cruiser's acceleration or deceleration?

Hmm, just to explain a little more, the visual dictionary has these ion cannons tacked onto the large belt fed guns labelled as mass drivers. we don't see the ion cannon fire AFAIK, we see the mass driver fire.

So its probably just that Saxton missed the mass-drivers out.

Hell, people apparently e-mail the guy and talk to him more than twice a year, Someone e-mail the bugger and ask!

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-07 03:48pm

We have remember that the Battle of Corusant was fought at atypically close range (normally ships would(or couldn't) approach so close each other that they could dock (they would destroy each other before that).

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2005-06-07 08:24pm

In regards to boarding actions, remember that apparently not everyone knew exactly which ship Palpatine was being held on. Not only was there a ship that fired upon the Invisible Hand, but the ICS indicates that the IH was attempting to remain inconspicuous.

President Sharky · Post by **President Sharky** » 2005-06-07 09:17pm

One question, are the quad turbolasers that guard the hangar of the Invisible Hand the same size as the quad guns on the Trade Federation Battleship?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-06-07 09:21pm

President Sharky wrote:One question, are the quad turbolasers that guard the hangar of the Invisible Hand the same size as the quad guns on the Trade Federation Battleship?

I don't think so. I remember seeing the Naboo Yacht fly past one in TPM, and it seemed much bigger. Not sure though.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-08 01:20am

Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:In regards to boarding actions, remember that apparently not everyone knew exactly which ship Palpatine was being held on. Not only was there a ship that fired upon the Invisible Hand, but the ICS indicates that the IH was attempting to remain inconspicuous.

Hrm... how did Obi-Wan and Anakin know which ship the Chancellor was on?

Grandmaster Jogurt · Post by **Grandmaster Jogurt** » 2005-06-08 01:46am

Cykeisme wrote:Hrm... how did Obi-Wan and Anakin know which ship the Chancellor was on?

It's been a while since I read LoE, but I think they might have gotten a clue there when they confronted Dooku. Can't say definitively though. On the other hand, perhaps Anakin and Obi-Wan were just more familiar with Dooku's flagship than most Republican forces? *shrug* I admit, I'm just tossing things out here.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2005-06-08 01:48am

Cykeisme wrote:
Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:In regards to boarding actions, remember that apparently not everyone knew exactly which ship Palpatine was being held on. Not only was there a ship that fired upon the Invisible Hand, but the ICS indicates that the IH was attempting to remain inconspicuous.
Hrm... how did Obi-Wan and Anakin know which ship the Chancellor was on?

IIRC, using the Force, they knew what the Invisible Hand looked like, and were heading for it. And Palpy's "tracking signal" -- if that is what it was called; the one they used to find him once aboard the ship -- might have factored in, too.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2005-06-08 01:49am

Cykeisme wrote:
Grandmaster Jogurt wrote:In regards to boarding actions, remember that apparently not everyone knew exactly which ship Palpatine was being held on. Not only was there a ship that fired upon the Invisible Hand, but the ICS indicates that the IH was attempting to remain inconspicuous.
Hrm... how did Obi-Wan and Anakin know which ship the Chancellor was on?

Because it was a trap.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-06-08 01:58am

They were homing in on the Chancellor's beacon from the beginning of the battle. RotS novel. They knew it was a trap partly because they didn't think it likely that Grievous & Co didn't know about the beacon, and the fact they could somehow pick up the beacon's readings through the heavy ECM in the battle.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-06-08 12:59pm

Vympel wrote:They were homing in on the Chancellor's beacon from the beginning of the battle. RotS novel. They knew it was a trap partly because they didn't think it likely that Grievous & Co didn't know about the beacon, and the fact they could somehow pick up the beacon's readings through the heavy ECM in the battle.

It makes you wonder why that Venator-class Star Destroyer unleashed a full broadside when the Chancellor was still on board the ship. Surely the Jedi are not the only ones able to pick up the Chancellor's beacon. Even common sense would dictate that the Chancellor would be on the Invisible Hand.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-09 10:31am

Indeed, that's why I asked how our heroic Jedi duo knew.

Let me string it all into a single question:
If Obi-Wan and Anakin were able to detect Palpatine aboard the Invisible Hand, why was the rest of the fleet firing on that ship? Surely they to must have detected Palpatine's presence in the same manner that the two Jedi did.

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2005-06-09 10:52am

Cykeisme wrote:Indeed, that's why I asked how our heroic Jedi duo knew.

Let me string it all into a single question:
If Obi-Wan and Anakin were able to detect Palpatine aboard the Invisible Hand, why was the rest of the fleet firing on that ship? Surely they to must have detected Palpatine's presence in the same manner that the two Jedi did.

They probably assumed that the Jedi had already escaped with Palpatine and left the beacon on. After all, in the novel a Carrack captain demanded proof that Grevious still had Palpatine before he'd stop firing on the Invisible Hand.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-09 10:59am

Hmm.. I suppose it's a possibility that some Republic ships' captains might have considered that the signal was a ruse by Grievous to avoid his ship from being fired upon.

Still, I doubt that any captain would fire on the ship unless they had confirmation that the Chancellor wasn't on board. What could possibly make them think he wasn't? I mean, everything they knew about the situation pointed toward him being on board, and in fact, he really was.

Surely he was important enough that they wouldn't have risked it, either way. Recall that the primary purpose of the Separatist fleet's excursion was the capture of the Chancellor!

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2005-06-09 11:44am

Perhaps they reasoned that it was better to kill him than let the Seperatists suceed in kidnapping him, then interrogate him and gain access to all the information he has?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-09 11:51am

Covering fire?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-06-09 12:41pm

Lone_Prodigy wrote:They probably assumed that the Jedi had already escaped with Palpatine and left the beacon on. After all, in the novel a Carrack captain demanded proof that Grevious still had Palpatine before he'd stop firing on the Invisible Hand.

I think his rank was actually below Captain (perhaps the captain of his vessel was killed in the fighting?), and I believe his last name was Needa. I'm not sure it was a Carrack; I speed-read the hardcover novelization last night so some of the details are a bit foggy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-06-09 12:46pm

It's so typical of Trektards that they would try to portray those guns as some kind of proof of weakness, when they are in fact proof of the variety of weapons that are in use; a staple feature of the Star Wars universe. They certainly aren't the main batteries; as apparent projectile weapons, they probably have ammo types which you can vary depending on what you want to accomplish. It's not like a modern tank only carries one type of projectile. If they were using AP rounds and they managed to bring down the enemy's shields, you would expect limited damage at the point of impact because the idea is to penetrate deep into the enemy ship rather than creating a big explosion at the point of impact.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-06-09 01:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Lone_Prodigy wrote:They probably assumed that the Jedi had already escaped with Palpatine and left the beacon on. After all, in the novel a Carrack captain demanded proof that Grevious still had Palpatine before he'd stop firing on the Invisible Hand.
I think his rank was actually below Captain (perhaps the captain of his vessel was killed in the fighting?), and I believe his last name was Needa. I'm not sure it was a Carrack; I speed-read the hardcover novelization last night so some of the details are a bit foggy.

It was Lieutenant Commander Lorth Needa. And it was a Carrack-class. There are minor warships whose captain (or skipper) is not a captain in rank. This may give some support to the notion that Dr. Saxton promotes that ships of the Carrack's irregular aesthetic and size are considered quite minor by the Navy, and do not warrant full captains.

Johnny Ipcress · Post by **Johnny Ipcress** » 2005-06-09 01:20pm

Lone_Prodigy wrote: They probably assumed that the Jedi had already escaped with Palpatine and left the beacon on. After all, in the novel a Carrack captain demanded proof that Grevious still had Palpatine before he'd stop firing on the Invisible Hand.

Judging by the novel, it seems Lieutenant Commander Needa (of "No ship that small has a cloaking device" fame) had no idea whatsoever that Palpatine was on board the Invisible Hand. He even requested Grievous prove that Palpatine was on board (or else).

So why were the Jedi the only ones aware of it? Even if the Jedi are the only ones able to attempt a rescue, one would think that the fleet commanders might benefit from knowing which ship their kidnapped Commander-in-Chief was on.