SW.com on Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

[Spanky The Dolphin]

It's that Vader is weak in the Force, compared to his potential. It comes from Lucas.

[Stuart Mackey]

Think to Stover's description of Vader first awakening and when he tries to use the Force - "Like a painter without sight, a scuptor without hands, " or somethng to that effect. This not someone who lost his power, its someone who is no longer in touch with it.

But that's my two cents absent GL making me look like an ass and saying something more contrived and ridiculous.

Hurrpmph, Stover seems to think that suit Vader is so incredibly limited as to be only able to effect a few things in one room? then how did he kill Ozzel?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well, for one thing, that was nearly 25 years later...

[Stuart Mackey]

It's that Vader is weak in the Force, compared to his potential. It comes from Lucas.

I, for one, would love to see his reasoning for that because I can see no good reason for it.

[Lord Poe]

I, for one, would love to see his reasoning for that because I can see no good reason for it.

It means that, before Anakin was chopped and BBQed, he WAS the greatest Force-user ever. The tragedy of Anakin is, he's only at HALF his potential now. That's still amazingly powerful, but not the raw superpowered bad ass he WAS.

[VT-16]

My explanation is that his defeat/loss, coupled with his injuries, dampened his spirit to the point of loosing alot of his potential. Like a person experiencing great trauma, never being quite the same ever again.

[Cykeisme]

I like to think that Vader's potential was weakened due to the horrible injuries he sustained to his soul, not injuries to his body. You know... losing his love, his brother (sort of), and the only family he's ever known, due to his own actions.

Silly aren't I?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

That's actually the general consensus.

[Cykeisme]

Ah, okay.

Except for Mr. Lucas?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

To be sure we might have to wait and see.

[Stuart Mackey]

I, for one, would love to see his reasoning for that because I can see no good reason for it.

It means that, before Anakin was chopped and BBQed, he WAS the greatest Force-user ever. The tragedy of Anakin is, he's only at HALF his potential now. That's still amazingly powerful, but not the raw superpowered bad ass he WAS.

But how does this occur? Are midicolorians {sp?} of a finite number or are they like bloodcells?, cause thats the only way I see that would explain it. There is nothing to seriously explain why Vader is supposed to lack the power that he had.

[The Grim Squeaker]

He gets flambed and chopped to pieces then stuck in a mini golden throne, It's hard for the force to flow through him at that point compared to the past.

[Stark]

Why? The Force works at FTL and in deep space (and both simulataneously), both places that are hardly 'near nature' or whatever. It's just as lame as that Y-salami garbage.

Frankly, I feel that the Emperor is dampening him, using the same shroud he used in the PT to keep him weak (much of the time). When Anakin turned, you could almost see him wilt whenever Palpatine turned to look at him, and straighten when DS looked out the window.

[The Grim Squeaker]

It's probable,
after all it's hinted very strongly that Sidious is using the "Midi chlorian manipulating technique" to keep anakin alive,

who knows, maybe in the process he made sure that anakins body kept damaging it's own midichlorians to stop it from dying.

[Stark]

*OR* we could stick entirely to existing, demonstrated abilities that just so happen to provide a decent explanation. Up to the individual, really.

[VT-16]

Firstly, luminous beings, not crude matter

That whole "luminous beings"-tirade is only limited to when a person dies, imho. When the person is alive, he or she is mostly confined by material rules and regulations, i.e can´t use the Force too much without getting tired/worn-down. Since Vader is no longer a whole man, he can´t channel the Force as effectively as when he was wholly human and probably gets easily tired from using it. All in all, with what we see him do in the OT, just imagine what he could have done at the top of his game.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I like IP's idea of it being all in Vader's head more than anything. Firstly, luminous beings, not crude matter (pinching Luke's arm for emphasis).

Simply because I was the first one to propose it here, I feel I should clarify for honesty purposes: it was largely Publius' conception, during one of our discussions regarding ROTS.

[Illuminatus Primus]

But how does this occur? Are midicolorians {sp?} of a finite number or are they like bloodcells?, cause thats the only way I see that would explain it. There is nothing to seriously explain why Vader is supposed to lack the power that he had.

If midichlorians produce Force senstivity, why don't they culture and grow them. Treating them like that makes no sense as a biological organism. Its a really bad road to take.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Firstly, luminous beings, not crude matter

That whole "luminous beings"-tirade is only limited to when a person dies, imho. When the person is alive, he or she is mostly confined by material rules and regulations, i.e can´t use the Force too much without getting tired/worn-down. Since Vader is no longer a whole man, he can´t channel the Force as effectively as when he was wholly human and probably gets easily tired from using it. All in all, with what we see him do in the OT, just imagine what he could have done at the top of his game.

But WHY? It makes no bloody sense; his bionic parts DO NOT TIRE and ARE BETTER AND MORE DURABLE than organic muscles. Why would he tire more with those; and like I said, if its that he's missing body mass, why aren't less massive Jedi weaker?

[The Grim Squeaker]

Maybe he cant enhance his mechanical parts for extra "zip" the way yoda does, and presumably Windu\Obi-Wan.

(From old dwarf to green crack monkey is a pretty big powerboost )

[VT-16]

But WHY? It makes no bloody sense; his bionic parts DO NOT TIRE and ARE BETTER AND MORE DURABLE than organic muscles. Why would he tire more with those; and like I said, if its that he's missing body mass, why aren't less massive Jedi weaker?

It has nothing to do with bodymass, only the "completeness" of a person, Vader, who is just a shell of a man, is no longer as strong in the Force, as he was when he was a "complete" man. In a sense, it´s more spiritual/psychological than biological.

If midichlorians produce Force senstivity, why don't they culture and grow them.

The midis make a person more susceptible to "hearing" the Force, it doesn´t mean that person will instantanously become more powerful. Once again, it´s a matter of mind-set and concentration, i.e psychological/spiritual. Makes more sense to me.

[Stuart Mackey]

But how does this occur? Are midicolorians {sp?} of a finite number or are they like bloodcells?, cause thats the only way I see that would explain it. There is nothing to seriously explain why Vader is supposed to lack the power that he had.

If midichlorians produce Force senstivity, why don't they culture and grow them. Treating them like that makes no sense as a biological organism. Its a really bad road to take.

Bad road or not, if the midichlorians do determine force sensitivity then they have to be made by the body somehow. If so then it does not make sense that Vader be so limited.

[Stuart Mackey]

But WHY? It makes no bloody sense; his bionic parts DO NOT TIRE and ARE BETTER AND MORE DURABLE than organic muscles. Why would he tire more with those; and like I said, if its that he's missing body mass, why aren't less massive Jedi weaker?

It has nothing to do with bodymass, only the "completeness" of a person, Vader, who is just a shell of a man, is no longer as strong in the Force, as he was when he was a "complete" man. In a sense, it´s more spiritual/psychological than biological.

.

It is a matter of canon {TPM} that the midi's determine force sensitivity. Therefore Vaders potential is still there unless he has less midi's.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Correlation without causation, numbnuts. The fact that people who are more Force sensitive have more midis does not mean midis cause Force sensitivity. Basic logic and debate. I expect better here of all places. Christ.

[Stuart Mackey]

Correlation without causation, numbnuts. The fact that people who are more Force sensitive have more midis does not mean midis cause Force sensitivity. Basic logic and debate. I expect better here of all places. Christ.

And a heathy 'up yours', too.
But with all due respect, it is a matter of canon, as said by Qui-Gon.
From TPM, the novel.
"Midi-cholorians are microscopic lifeforms that reside within the cells of all living things and communicate with the force."

"Without the midi-cholorains, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the force."