Split from ROTS Revelations

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2005-06-08 02:44pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
I find it hard to believe the jump ring has that great of a range.

The ring took Obi Wan from Coruscant to Kamino, then to Geonosis in AotC. This is supposedly the system for making jumps for Jedi to travel the galaxy, in fact didn't the one in RotS have four-six boosters on it, where the one in AotC had two?

Ironbeard · Post by **Ironbeard** » 2005-06-08 03:01pm

Jedi Security: Obi-Wan confidently asserts that it will take a long time for Palpatine to find out that the message on the "distress beacon" at the Jedi Temple has been changed, indicating that Palpatine doesn't understand the code well enough to pick up on the changes (presumably the code changes on an automated basis, so a change in the coded signal need not imply a change in the message). This is somewhat surprising, considering that Palpatine knew a lot of the goings on in the Jedi Council, and had at least 3 former Jedi working for him (Dooku, Sifo-Dyas and Anakin). Either the Jedi are really careful with their codes or Palpatine assumed he didn't need to understand the code.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-06-08 03:11pm

Mike: Just as a note, Qui-Gon might well have appeared to Yoda and Obi-wan off camera. As it is, Liam Neeson supposedly wanted fuck all to do with another Star Wars movie hence all his stuff is "off camera" in the next two films.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-08 03:15pm

Ironbeard wrote:Jedi Security: Obi-Wan confidently asserts that it will take a long time for Palpatine to find out that the message on the "distress beacon" at the Jedi Temple has been changed, indicating that Palpatine doesn't understand the code well enough to pick up on the changes (presumably the code changes on an automated basis, so a change in the coded signal need not imply a change in the message). This is somewhat surprising, considering that Palpatine knew a lot of the goings on in the Jedi Council, and had at least 3 former Jedi working for him (Dooku, Sifo-Dyas and Anakin). Either the Jedi are really careful with their codes or Palpatine assumed he didn't need to understand the code.

the code is series of beeps and the change that Obi-Wan did wasn't that big.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-06-08 03:30pm

Also, since R2D2 doesn't recognize Yoda, whom he's met in I, II, and III, when Luke lands on Degobah, we can assume that he's had his memory wiped too. .

When did he meet Yoda?

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-06-08 03:32pm

Vympel wrote:I still havent seen this ship you guys are talkign about though.

You can see it briefly on Utapau after the battle is over. We see clones lining the "street" with Utapauan dignitaries walking between them. A corvette-sized ship flied overhead (we only see it from the rear) and is shining searchlights into the canyon IIRC (possibly still searching for Obi-wan). In any case, it's there.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-08 04:37pm

Am I the only one disappointed tha we didn't get to see wookiees rip any arms out of sockets? I mean, have Gree get decapitated, have Tarful take on the scout. Or have random wookiee 5 rip the arms off a SBD. Something, please!

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-06-08 04:54pm

Ender wrote:Am I the only one disappointed tha we didn't get to see wookiees rip any arms out of sockets? I mean, have Gree get decapitated, have Tarful take on the scout. Or have random wookiee 5 rip the arms off a SBD. Something, please!

No, I was actually thinking about that the other day. The OS showed some artwork on Hyperspace showing wookiees doing exactly that (a few months back), and iirc Pablo also said that we would be seeing that, so I was somewhat disappointed. The Kashyyyk battle seems to have been trimmed significantly.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-09 08:10pm

VT-16 wrote: I believe I saw yellow bolts in the opening battle, as well as orange and red with a yellow core in ANH and ROTJ, respectively.

If you're talking about the 2004 DVD's, I wouldn't trust that too far. After all, they clearly show Vaders saber change colors from pink to orange and back, and Luke's from blue to green and back... and we know those color changes didn't occur in previous versions (well Luke's saber changed from blue to white and back in ANH, fine I grant you that, and Obi-Wan's saber fizzles out to the prop stick and Vader's appears white in one shot in ANH).

Yellow bolts in ROTS you say? If you saw that, good eye, we need that DVD!

***

About Palpatine's "tracking beacon." In the novelisation, Grevious calls the Jedi "idiots" for not disabling the beacon (not in their presence of course).

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-09 08:31pm

SCVN 2812 wrote:It may be worth pointing out that the smallest capital ships taking part in the battle of Coruscant on screen were the Munificent Star Frigates.

In the novelization Carrack Light Cruisers are mentioned but were operating in squadrons and supported by Dreadnaughts.

This suggests to me that there is a point where ships are considered too small to take part in battles dominated by 800-3,000 meter ships. Ships somewhat smaller than Star Frigates must operate in wolf packs to be effective and survivable.

Massed bombers and long range turbolasers may make torpedo boats superflous or even worse, a waste of lives and materials. (Though neither the CIS nor Republic seems to employ massed bombers or torpedo boats.)

You mean ships other than fighters, right?

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-06-09 09:32pm

That's why he refers to "capital" ships.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-09 09:38pm

Kurgan wrote:
VT-16 wrote: I believe I saw yellow bolts in the opening battle, as well as orange and red with a yellow core in ANH and ROTJ, respectively.
If you're talking about the 2004 DVD's, I wouldn't trust that too far. After all, they clearly show Vaders saber change colors from pink to orange and back, and Luke's from blue to green and back... and we know those color changes didn't occur in previous versions (well Luke's saber changed from blue to white and back in ANH, fine I grant you that, and Obi-Wan's saber fizzles out to the prop stick and Vader's appears white in one shot in ANH).

Fuck all, Luke's sabre only turns green in ONE, FUCKING, SHOT in ANH, and Vader's is only orange in ONE, FUCKING, SHOT in RotJ. That stance you're taking is way too broad, and it's idiotic to just dismiss evidence from all three films just because of TWO shots.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-06-09 10:31pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote: Fuck all, Luke's sabre only turns green in ONE, FUCKING, SHOT in ANH, and Vader's is only orange in ONE, FUCKING, SHOT in RotJ. That stance you're taking is way too broad, and it's idiotic to just dismiss evidence from all three films just because of TWO shots.

Actually Vader's sabre is inconsistent in both TESB and RotJ in the DVD. The carbonite chamber duel, several shots, the core should be white and the fucking thing is pinkish red. Lowry Digital's incompetence with the lightsabres annoys me no end. They also balsed up the classic shot in RotJ of the sabres crossing in front of Paplatine's face because of that.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 10:34pm

Actually Vader's sabre is inconsistent in both TESB and RotJ in the DVD. The carbonite chamber duel, several shots, the core should be white and the fucking thing is pinkish red. Lowry Digital's incompetence with the lightsabres annoys me no end. They also balsed up the classic shot in RotJ of the sabres crossing in front of Paplatine's face because of that.

That was actually the part of the DVDs I disliked the most. It is so damn obvious that they are wrong, it really pisses me of none of those fools considered the scene (or the sabers in general) important enough to do well.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-10 01:31am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
VT-16 wrote: I believe I saw yellow bolts in the opening battle, as well as orange and red with a yellow core in ANH and ROTJ, respectively.
If you're talking about the 2004 DVD's, I wouldn't trust that too far. After all, they clearly show Vaders saber change colors from pink to orange and back, and Luke's from blue to green and back... and we know those color changes didn't occur in previous versions (well Luke's saber changed from blue to white and back in ANH, fine I grant you that, and Obi-Wan's saber fizzles out to the prop stick and Vader's appears white in one shot in ANH).
Fuck all, Luke's sabre only turns green in ONE, FUCKING, SHOT in ANH, and Vader's is only orange in ONE, FUCKING, SHOT in RotJ. That stance you're taking is way too broad, and it's idiotic to just dismiss evidence from all three films just because of TWO shots.

What the hell? Don't yell at me Spanky, yell at Lowry Digital, the ones who screwed up the colors (it happened on their watch).

This has nothing to do with Lucas's vision (it's just a mistake), so don't worry about defending it. Obviously you don't believe that sabers change color in mid use (like Darkstar does), and neither do I.

For the record, it's blue in Ben's hut the first time we see it in ANH.

ROTS is consistent since it was blue when Anakin was last using it in his duel with Obi-Wan 20 years prior.

Then it's green on the Falcon for Luke's training with the remote. Then in the same scene it's blue as Luke blocks the shots from the remote with the helmet on. And it's blue in ESB (as far as I could tell) throughout. So I shouldn't have said "and back" because we never see the blade ignitied again until the next movie. If that's the part of what I said you had a problem with, then boom, there's the correction, but you weren't finished with your criticsm...

You said "one fucking shot." It's not 1 shot, it's actually several shots as it cuts back to Obi-Wan and other characters and back to Luke. Perhaps you meant to say "one scene"? That would have made more sense.

It's not as if I'm whining about a couple of frames here and there like Obi-Wan's fizzled out blade or Vader's white saber as the blast doors closed... both of which I might add fans have complained about for years, and nobody accuses them of overreacting, so heh!

The fact that there are a few frames of the saber being simultaneously green and blue together (not mixed, but together) is also annoying.

And when I was talking about Vader's 'orange saber' I was actually referring to a shot in ESB, but since you mention ROTJ I'll have to keep an eye out. Making my point for me I guess?

The color gaffes occur in all three movies, so it's a valid point, not "too broad" as you claim. Too broad for what? To consider that other color gaffes could have been made?

And it's not idiotic for me to "dismiss evidence" because it's proof positive that Lowry Digital goofed up some colors when making the DVD's. There is no fundamental difference between the color red depicting a blaster bolt in one shot and the color red depicting a saber blade in another shot. If they can make the saber orange when it shouldn't be, they can just as easily repeat the mistake in the other instance. And it's not just sabers, they also lost the color from the Deathstar explosion, so again, it's a perfectly valid observation. If there was always an orange bolt in the background, that's a different matter of course.

The way to get an idea if such a thing occured would be to compare other versions of the film with the 2004 DVD's. If the older version shows us a green bolt, and all of a sudden it's blue in the new version, we could easily guess that it was a gaffe, rather than a new wrinkle in Lucas's thinking about canonical bolt colors or something, ditto if a red bolt is suddenly orange (or as Darkstar did, acting like it's now canon that lightsabers change color while being used). Even you have admitted that certain things we see in the movies are just gaffes and shouldn't be taken so literally, and that's what I'm doing here. Relaaaaax.

We don't have the same problem with ROTS, since there is only one version of the film we have access to (well okay, digital and film if you want to get technical but you know what I mean), and it's unlikely that it will need "restoring" anytime soon so that somebody can goof up the colors. So if somebody saw yellow bolts in the theater, then there really are yellow bolts. I never questioned that, only I don't remember seeing them, but I have only seen ROTS 3 times, I'm sure there's hundreds of little things I've missed and I can pick up on those things in my leisure viewings of the DVD. But that doesn't end all speculation just because I can't go frame by frame for hours with it, right?

So to sum up (in case you whine that this answer to your whine is too long): the DVD's DO show us inconsistent sabers in more than just one shot, others have pointed this out and documented it. They've also documented other color inconsistencies (such as the DS1 explosion) in these DVD's. We have no evidence that these things were done intentionally as a new canon revelation from Lucas. Rumor has it the DVD project was something of a rush job, so it's not too surprising that these are the kinds of things that happened. Are there other errors yet to be found? Where there's smoke, there's often fire.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-10 01:33am

No, it's only green in one single, total shot in ANH.

But you're right, I suppose, that I shouldn't be getting so worked up. It's just that you're "oh I wouldn't take the DVDs into much consideration" or whatever comment put me in a rage. It just struck me as the wrong way of thinking.

And yes, I do wish you could just condense into only a few lines and paragraphs what you render into about a page or so of text. I just seem to lose place or forget what you're talking about, because you just go on and on, usually stating stuff I already know.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-10 01:40am

There I have to disagree then. Far away shot (Green); cut to close up shot (green). Close up shot (blue).

(sorry, caught the edit)

The reason I go on and on, Spanky, is because you force me to go into minute detail so to avoid any misunderstanding.

Granted, I could just go "fuck you, ur wrong!" or something. Or I could quote every sentence like some people do and refute it line by line. I'd rather you just understood what I was saying (or trying to say) to avoid having our posts look like a chat between two guys having a pissing contest when it need not be.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-10 01:42am

I don't recall that and request that somebody else confirm. I'm running torrents right now and it's lagged Sarah down so much that I"d have to reset.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-10 01:44am

Trust me on this, I'm not bullshitting you, but go ahead.

Edit: I made a couple pics (not color altered) awhile back when I first got the DVD's and noticed it, to see what other people thought. It's not perfect but something to tide you over:

(all these are ALL from the new DVD's)

Edit #2: Here's some more pics. There's more but the first frame shows green in front of his body and blue above (there's several frames like this, but its not very noticeable, what is noticeable is the changes between shots from green to blue). The most obvious shot is the one where Luke is training before Obi-Wan feels the "disturbance in the force" wherein Luke shuts off his saber and asks what's wrong. Then he goes back and turns his saber back on to continue training and we get the color changes starting to happen. It's a lot easier to see on a big bright screen (assuming your colors aren't screwed up on your tv/monitor).

I believe you sometimes think I'm some uber-purist who's unfairly attacking George Lucas/Star Wars and being a nitpicky asshole and trying to piss off true fans like yourself, but I'm really not, so I'm trying to explain myself so you don't get the wrong idea.

I'm just annoyed at Lowry Digital for dropping in what appear to be stupid, easily correctable mistakes into an otherwise phenomenal product, and possibly Lucas for rushing them. And this throws other analysis into suspicion (doesn't disqualify everything from the DVD's, just means we have to be more careful).

Apologies to Mr. Wong for cluttering up the thread with this tangent.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-10 01:46am

No, I just think you're an OT Canon purist n00b.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-10 02:31am

Which is utterly wrong of course. I love the prequels (well except for TPM).

And I am used to being called a n00b, I'm an online gamer.

PS: I edited my post with some more pics, have a gander at the last page.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-10 02:38am

Okay, you're right.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-10 03:36am

Isolder74 wrote:Has this been mentioned?

It appears that the Chanceller has on his person a tracking becon. This becon is on him in such a way that the jedi feel confident that finding it they find the chanceller. It HAS to but on him in such a way that taking away his clothes would not lower their confidence in finding it.

Is it some type of implant?

Oh, I see where this is going.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-10 03:39am

Is it some type of implant?
Oh, I see where this is going. Shocked

Maybe that's why he ends up needing a stick to walk

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-10 03:43am

the .303 bookworm wrote:Maybe that's why he ends up needing a stick to walk

Old Plympto wrote:After reading Ben Burtt's Galactic Phrases book (the section what he thought Artoo was saying in ANH) and the way Artoo chuckled evilly when Bail Organa ordered a memory wipe for Threepio, I have come to the conclusion that Artoo is as sensitive as Bender the robot, as just as uncouth.

R2D2 is like Bender... hahahaha... that's a credible idea, to be honest. He's a feisty one!

This puts a new spin on everything!

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Split from ROTS Revelations

Dear Spanky... long post!

and this concludes my chat with spanky!