I am perplexed.

Mephistopheles · Post by **Mephistopheles** » 2005-06-09 12:53am

It is oft referred that Anakin was one of the greatest pilot in the galaxy within the Star Wars canon. What reason would Palpatine have for not having Vader cloned to establish the pilots of the Imperial starfighters, considering that cloning technology had proved successful with the Clone Troopers?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 12:55am

Mephistopheles wrote:It is oft referred that Anakin was one of the greatest pilot in the galaxy within the Star Wars canon. What reason would Palpatine have for not having Vader cloned to establish the pilots of the Imperial starfighters, considering that cloning technology had proved successful with the Clone Troopers?

Cloned force user are extremely unstable. Both J'oruus Caboth and Palpatine's clones went insane very quickly.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-06-09 12:57am

Assuming, of course, that the method of cloning is Spaarti cloning. I don't think there's any information about Kaminoan style Force adept-clones.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 01:00am

Darth Yoshi wrote:Assuming, of course, that the method of cloning is Spaarti cloning. I don't think there's any information about Kaminoan style Force adept-clones.

I'm not entirely sure, but I do not believe Palpatine's clones were Spaarti grown. Of course there is the extenuating circumstance of the mind transfer, but it still seems likely that a clone might not be able to control or handle force powers as a natural host would.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-09 01:02am

Joruus C'Bouth was only insane because he was grown in less than a year. I don't recall that Palpatine's clones were insane.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 01:07am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Joruus C'Bouth was only insane because he was grown in less than a year. I don't recall that Palpatine's clones were insane.

Well, if not insane, thew were different personality wise than their originator. Very different.

Evil Force Vampire Nihilus Palpatine

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-06-09 01:07am

Well, Palpatine was pretty much insane at that point, so the argument could be made that since he was in a clone body that the clone was insane, but that's semantics, and pretty stupid.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-09 01:07am

Pure Sabacc wrote:Evil Force Vampire Nihilus Palpatine

Since when? What the hell is this crap?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-06-09 01:09am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Joruus C'Bouth was only insane because he was grown in less than a year. I don't recall that Palpatine's clones were insane.

Considering that the original Palpy seemed to have turned into a gibbering hobgoblin post-Windu, I wouldn't find it hard to believe that the original source was a bit damaged.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 01:11am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:Evil Force Vampire Nihilus Palpatine
Since when? What the hell is this crap?

Meh, that was the impression I gathered, at least in DE2. I havent read them for a long time though, I could be off base.

I suppose neither example is necissarily appliable too Kaminoian cloning techniques, so a diffinative answer cant really given. However, even if he could do it, why would Palpatine want thousands of emotionally unstable and super-powerful potential uspers running around itstead of just one, controlable one?

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-09 01:13am

I'm going to answer taking only the movies into account (being an ass, and answering as though the EU didn't exist): I think Force sensitivity doesn't carry over into clones. Anakin's piloting skills are rooted in his Force sensitivity.. thus, you'd simply end up with a bunch of regular joes.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-06-09 01:20am

Cykeisme wrote:I'm going to answer taking only the movies into account (being an ass, and answering as though the EU didn't exist): I think Force sensitivity doesn't carry over into clones. Anakin's piloting skills are rooted in his Force sensitivity.. thus, you'd simply end up with a bunch of regular joes.

IIRC the AOTC novel c onsiders the idea of cloned Force users to be rather possible, in fact. The Kaminoans in fact wanted to use a Jedi and Obi-Wan didn't exactly dismiss the idea out of hand. (And given that Cloning is hardly a new or unknown technology, I would be very surprised if the idea of "cloned Jedi" has not occured more than once throughout the Republic's history.)

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 01:24am

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Cykeisme wrote:I'm going to answer taking only the movies into account (being an ass, and answering as though the EU didn't exist): I think Force sensitivity doesn't carry over into clones. Anakin's piloting skills are rooted in his Force sensitivity.. thus, you'd simply end up with a bunch of regular joes.
IIRC the AOTC novel c onsiders the idea of cloned Force users to be rather possible, in fact. The Kaminoans in fact wanted to use a Jedi and Obi-Wan didn't exactly dismiss the idea out of hand. (And given that Cloning is hardly a new or unknown technology, I would be very surprised if the idea of "cloned Jedi" has not occured more than once throughout the Republic's history.)

The Jedi Order is obviously very controling and concious of the "will or state" of the force. Perhaps, even if the process is feasible, they simply didnt want a sudden upsurge in force users suddenly tapping into the force. Or maybe they worried that multiple identical force users might creat weird or dangerous anomolies or something.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-09 01:27am

True, MacLeod.

However, I noticed that Lama Su's lines about having wanted a Jedi template appeared in the AotC final script, but were cut before it hit the screen. Any idea why that is? I wouldn't go as far as to say Lucas had the same idea that I mentioned, but it is still odd that those lines would be cut.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-06-09 02:54am

Why would cloning him be an even remotely good idea? If Force powers aren't cloned, then you have a legion of normal pilots who just happen to look like Anakin. If they are carried over, you have a legion of uber-Jedi who could pose a major threat to your own power (assuming you are Palpatine).

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-09 03:25am

Isnt most of Anakin's skill related to the force?
I recall a EU species (Dorsk xxxx) in whom force sensitivity was unheard of due to generations of slow cloning.
Maybe it doesnt duplicate the Midis correctly?

The Jazz Intern · Post by **The Jazz Intern** » 2005-06-09 06:08pm

Allright, Number 1, If you clone anakin, the CHOSEN one, the one with the most midiclorians ever heard of, you will have major insanity. Number 2, aside from point number 1, Anakin TURNS evil, he isn't born that way. Do you want to have a bunch of uber jedis you clone turn good on you?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-09 06:17pm

Why would they be good?

Theyre clones- they dont have a mind (until theyre programmed)

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-09 08:04pm

What do you mean they don't have a mind? Of course they have one.

Kamino clones are trained and educated like any other person to be how they are.

Spaarti clones are given "flash brain imprints" so that just fills their "blank" (as any infant) minds with somebody else's memories.

Them being 'programmed' if it's ever mentioned anywhere I wouldn't take anymore literally than saying secret service agents or elite special forces are "programmed" in our real world. These aren't droids.

We have no evidence of genetic tampering with Kamino clones once they're out of the tank. From that point on it seems to be all nurture.

The Jazz Intern · Post by **The Jazz Intern** » 2005-06-09 10:11pm

And, Anakin was supposed to put the force into balance. After he went to far, it seems the job was given to his kin. After all, Midiclorians can't be genetic, other wise we would be out of jedi by Episode 3 because no jedi were supposed to get "attached"

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-09 10:13pm

The Jazz Intern wrote:And, Anakin was supposed to put the force into balance. After he went to far, it seems the job was given to his kin. After all, Midiclorians can't be genetic, other wise we would be out of jedi by Episode 3 because no jedi were supposed to get "attached"

Um, Anakin only finished half of the prophesy by destroying the Jedi Order. It wouldn't be another 25 years until he completed the other half: destroying the Sith. But he did indeed fulfill the prophecy.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-06-09 10:17pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:The Jedi Order is obviously very controling and concious of the "will or state" of the force. Perhaps, even if the process is feasible, they simply didnt want a sudden upsurge in force users suddenly tapping into the force. Or maybe they worried that multiple identical force users might creat weird or dangerous anomolies or something.

The Force creates a resonance between a clone and its template. That was the weakness in Spaarti cloning. If grown too fast, the resonance breaks the clones' minds. A Force adept would presumably be more sensitive to such a resonansce, which is probably one of the reasons there has never been an army of clone Jedi supersoldiers.

The Jazz Intern · Post by **The Jazz Intern** » 2005-06-10 12:05am

I don't know... cutting of both sides works, but why not just give one side a "Trim"?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-10 12:33am

What do you mean they don't have a mind? Of course they have one.

Sorry, I meant that they are'nt born with an adult mind, theyre blank slates like babies.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-10 12:35am

the .303 bookworm wrote:
What do you mean they don't have a mind? Of course they have one.
Sorry, I meant that they are'nt born with an adult mind, theyre blank slates like babies.

All clones are born "as babies." There are just varying techinques that grow and educate them at different rates and manners. (Kaminoian more slowly and carefully than the flash grown/tought somewhat unstable Spaarti ones.)

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