Why do you Hate them?

Fire Fly · Post by **Fire Fly** » 2005-06-09 01:51am

Oh yes, one thing I forgot. In KJA's Jedi Apprentice, Wedge and his construction team finds an underground vault of some sort beneath the ruins of buildings destroyed during DE. There, they find a crystal that allows you to detect force users and that is apparently how the Emperor and Vader were able to destroy so many Jedi. A Force Detection Crystral (TM)?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 01:56am

Fire Fly wrote:Oh yes, one thing I forgot. In KJA's Jedi Apprentice, Wedge and his construction team finds an underground vault of some sort beneath the ruins of buildings destroyed during DE. There, they find a crystal that allows you to detect force users and that is apparently how the Emperor and Vader were able to destroy so many Jedi. A Force Detection Crystral (TM)?

This isnt a particulary unreasonable idea. Not only are force reactive crystals shown in Jedi Outcast, but it is known that lightsaber core crystals also react to those with force powers. It is one of JKA's less offensive ideas.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-06-09 02:49am

I think Necronlord has a damn fine point. Why did the New Republic not build a couple of Devastators to crank out a whole heap o fighting units?

They could of run them over uninhabited worlds, after all.

I think I tolerated DE and the Thrawn Trilogy in my youth. Having just re-read the Zahn books my reaction was 'ehh'.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-06-09 03:24am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Apparently, Palpy isn't interested to transfer this little tidbit.

And this is not grounds to dislike the story why?

You might as well say Star Destroyers don't capture your interest, for they are pretty stock - superluminal travel, beam weapons, tractor beams...

Star Destroyers are memorable, in part because of their grand cinematic introduction, and in part because they are a very well handled 9at least originally) rendition of a sci-fi concept. I've seen Von Neumann machines done as well or better in many other places before (say, 2010) and since (say, Stargate). It is just my taste, but, meh.

Why not? The galaxy is so big.

You know, out of however many intelligence analysts the NR has, you'd think 40 million inhabited worlds wouldn't be that large a number. The galaxy is big, however, most of it is empty space.

Been there since ANH. Can't blame DE.

Obi Wan never transferred his mind/spirit into a new body. The ressurected Emperor would have been better if he had simply had the original's memories flash imprinted or some such. IMO of course.

The Death Star's superlaser is also "vastly more powerful" than its turbolaser armament. And I thought the inconsistancy was caused by WEG's Sourcebook.

The Dark Empire Source Book material is included in this list.

You agree it is nifty, so what's the problem?

The Hitleresque obsession with wonder weapons on the part of the Empire gets to me. It's also a flaw of KJA's. The vast fleet of the Galactic Empire is easily dealt with, but some new shiny item of military paraphenalia is not.[/quote]
The fundamental nature of Force-usage is that you are sucking the life-energy of everything around you to power your magic. What Palpy does is merely an "optimized draw", which can increase his Force powers beyond what is normally possible for his inductor configuration. I don't see how this is so offensive.[/quote]
It cheapens the manipulative and intelligent villain of Return of the Jedi into a glorified vampire.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-06-09 03:42am

NecronLord wrote:And this is not grounds to dislike the story why?

In my impression (confirmed by SOTE in my scarce library), the Emperor trusts Vader more than just about anyone, but he still doesn't really trust him.

Mara at least figures the Emperor had some inkling of Vader's plans to try to overthrow him.

In fact, AFAIK the idea that Palpatine ever considered Vader more than some kind of tool was in ROTS. I was actually shocked when Vympel told me that stuff. Apparently, his stock went down when he got burned.

You know, out of however many intelligence analysts the NR has, you'd think 40 million inhabited worlds wouldn't be that large a number. The galaxy is big, however, most of it is empty space.
If they don't think a planet is inhabitable, they won't seriously check it out.

Obi Wan never transferred his mind/spirit into a new body. The ressurected Emperor would have been better if he had simply had the original's memories flash imprinted or some such. IMO of course.
It is a simple and logical extension. If your soul can get out, in principle you can anchor yourself to something else. Your clone is a logical choice for compatibility and ease of control.

The Hitleresque obsession with wonder weapons on the part of the Empire gets to me.
If they are good ideas, one should build them. Not building them just because you think they are wonder weapons is foolish.

It cheapens the manipulative and intelligent villain of Return of the Jedi into a glorified vampire.

Who still got to his high, lofty post by skilled maneuver. Are you saying a good villain can't be a vampire? Remember, the fundamental nature of using the Force (Light and Dark) is about taking the Force other lifeforms don't use and using it for your own ends. I think his concept was rather clever, optimizing his draw on people (at first specially selected for transfer to Byss) to boost his power. It is more innovative than the old scheme of sacrifice, where he burns people on a pyre for extra power.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-06-09 11:48am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote: In fact, AFAIK the idea that Palpatine ever considered Vader more than some kind of tool was in ROTS. I was actually shocked when Vympel told me that stuff. Apparently, his stock went down when he got burned.

Even after he's in his suit, the suit is described, as far as Palpatine is concerned, as both to "protect and to exhibit the greatest treasure of the Sith". I think Vader's stock went down only when Luke Skywalker appeared. You're right about the idea first appearing in RotS- I think it's a good one.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2005-06-09 04:48pm

In the book after the Crystal Star (the one in which Luke finds Callista, his girlfriend who disappeared in Darksaber after losing her force powers), Daala returns to the world and her old flame.

And afterwards, she takes the core over again, attacks the NR, gets owned by Generel Bel Iblis, and disappears into hyperspace (Yes, after Darksaber she tries the same **** again) See The Essential chronology.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 04:51pm

Thanas wrote:
In the book after the Crystal Star (the one in which Luke finds Callista, his girlfriend who disappeared in Darksaber after losing her force powers), Daala returns to the world and her old flame.
And afterwards, she takes the core over again, attacks the NR, gets owned by Generel Bel Iblis, and disappears into hyperspace (Yes, after Darksaber she tries the same **** again) See The Essential chronology.

She has to be one of the most incompident Imperials ever. Heck, even Ozzel wasnt that bad.

Coriolis · Post by **Coriolis** » 2005-06-09 05:00pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:She has to be one of the most incompident Imperials ever. Heck, even Ozzel wasnt that bad.

That is pretty bad

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-06-09 11:15pm

Sad thing is, she only made admiral because she was Tarkin's nighttoy.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-06-09 11:56pm

Indeed. I feel sorry for Daala. She could have been a good character, but ended up not so. At least Tavira had to get into power herself.

I want to read Dark Empire, because it just happens to have an intruiging art syle and the Eclipse in it. Sure, it has the overpowered Palpy, but I can deal with that.

KJA does deserve to die. He's a terrible writer. Terrible, terrible. His ideas were stupid (Which Stackpole points out in I, Jedi, which I liked a lot). Most of the stuff he comes up with is even worse that the idea that the New Rebublic scrapped the Lusankya to make more ships. That is of course one of the biggest tactical errors ever made.

Generally, the best EU is the EU that tends to away from crisis in the NR and the main characters. I'm not saying its all bad, but often it can get that way.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2005-06-10 12:11am

But watching them turn the Lusankya into the biggest single pilot starfighter in the history of Star Wars was pretty entertaining, and I think almost makes up for it.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-11 07:16pm

So far it seems the general consensus is that KJA should be killed slowly and painfully and that the DE wasn't that bad, although DE2 and EE were.

Is this correct?

Daala could have been a great Imperial leader. She just seems to get constantly screwed over by the Jedi (eg; Kyp and the suncrusher, Callista and the Knight Hammer, Kyp revealing her plan to the NR, Dorsk hurling her ISD fleet out of the Solar System, etc). She had been out of touch with the galaxy for decades. I thought all things considered she did a decent job of reunifying the Empire and striking at the NR (even if it turned out rather badly).