Is Star Wars sexist?

Drunk Monkey · Post by **Drunk Monkey** » 2005-06-08 10:29pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
What about Dala?
Palpatine didnt know about her appointment to Admiral, it was all personally orchestrated by Tarkin (Dalaa was his mistress.)

Oh I see Tarkin was seeing Dalaa for some hanky panky, that explains that. But how the hell didn’t palpy know?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-08 10:29pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:
Praxis wrote:BTW, you'll note several Jedi generals were women.
Which ones? Any pictures? Or is this from the EU?

Their roles are expanded upon in the EU and more figures are added, but several female Jedi are seen leading troops in AOTC and ROTS.

Luminara Unduli
Barriss Offee
Adi Gallia (and her cousin, whose name I always forget.)
Depa Billba
Shaak Tii
Aayla Secura
Bultar Swan

To name a few.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-08 10:32pm

Drunk Monkey wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
What about Dala?
Palpatine didnt know about her appointment to Admiral, it was all personally orchestrated by Tarkin (Dalaa was his mistress.)
Oh I see Tarkin was seeing Dalaa for some hanky panky, that explains that. But how the hell didn’t palpy know?

Tarkin quickly shunted Dalaa off to his hidden Maw installation research station after her secret promotion, and gave her a few ISDs to defend it. Tarkin died, and Dalaa was stranded there without orders or contact with the rest of the galaxy until well after the Emperor's death. He really didnt have the oppertunity to ever find out.

Post by **Kuja** » 2005-06-08 10:45pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:Adi Gallia (and her cousin, whose name I always forget.)

I think you're referring to Stass Allie. And also there's Siri Tachi.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-08 10:49pm

Praxis wrote:
Nephtys wrote:Pretty much the Imperial military was entirely male from the on-screen info, but they aren't exactly portrayed as the model you want to follow. Elsewhere, sure there's things like dancers and the infamous Leia outfit, but most female roles in SW aren't bad from what's shown. It also makes sense that the Rebels wouldn't care who got what job provided they have the merits to do 'em.

Lesse. Mon Mothma is the leader of the whole rebellion, and a good number of the hoth command section were women. Leia is a pretty strong and memorable character for the OT. Padme was alright I spose, even if she struck me as dense.

So yeah, it's not that bad. There's no really atrocious uniforms or the like, therefore it's better than 3/4th of all SciFi.
The Imperial military was both sexist and racist (or should I say speciesist?). Non-humans and females could not join.

Incorrect. They had it more difficult, but they were still there serving honorably. Publis has an excelent essay on this.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-08 11:03pm

Yeah, Imperials weren't sexist at all. Women didn't serve in the front lines, but they did serve in support roles. They just weren't as common as men.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-08 11:06pm

gladius wrote:Yeah, Imperials weren't sexist at all. Women didn't serve in the front lines, but they did serve in support roles. They just weren't as common as men.

Actually, they did. Kasan Moore from the rogue squadron video game for example.

Really, based off the latest actions in congress, the facist galactic empire was more progressive then the USA.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-06-08 11:09pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:
Praxis wrote:BTW, you'll note several Jedi generals were women.
Which ones? Any pictures? Or is this from the EU?

Look at the Jedi council chamber, or the one who got shot down during Order 66 in Episode 3. She was leading a squad.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-06-08 11:10pm

Ender wrote:
Praxis wrote:
Nephtys wrote:Pretty much the Imperial military was entirely male from the on-screen info, but they aren't exactly portrayed as the model you want to follow. Elsewhere, sure there's things like dancers and the infamous Leia outfit, but most female roles in SW aren't bad from what's shown. It also makes sense that the Rebels wouldn't care who got what job provided they have the merits to do 'em.

Lesse. Mon Mothma is the leader of the whole rebellion, and a good number of the hoth command section were women. Leia is a pretty strong and memorable character for the OT. Padme was alright I spose, even if she struck me as dense.

So yeah, it's not that bad. There's no really atrocious uniforms or the like, therefore it's better than 3/4th of all SciFi.
The Imperial military was both sexist and racist (or should I say speciesist?). Non-humans and females could not join.
Incorrect. They had it more difficult, but they were still there serving honorably. Publis has an excelent essay on this.

Sorry, women could join, they were just biased against (it was harder to rise in ranks).

Nonhumans couldn't join at all.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-06-08 11:12pm

Ender wrote:
gladius wrote:Yeah, Imperials weren't sexist at all. Women didn't serve in the front lines, but they did serve in support roles. They just weren't as common as men.
Actually, they did. Kasan Moore from the rogue squadron video game for example.

Really, based off the latest actions in congress, the facist galactic empire was more progressive then the USA.

As a pilot? That's interesting... are there any examples of them serving as frontline infantry though? It seems to me that they're mostly in intelligence, the fleet, or the army in support roles (as seen in Force Commander).

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-08 11:34pm

Praxis wrote:
Ender wrote:
Praxis wrote: The Imperial military was both sexist and racist (or should I say speciesist?). Non-humans and females could not join.
Incorrect. They had it more difficult, but they were still there serving honorably. Publis has an excelent essay on this.
Sorry, women could join, they were just biased against (it was harder to rise in ranks).

Nonhumans couldn't join at all.

Repeating your position again does not make it correct. Huba Neeva. Grand Admiral Thrawn. Grand Admiral Danetta Pitta. Lord Hetiner (Judicials are technically military, as seen by the Jedi reporting to the Judicial branch and leading the military). General Sk'ar. Major Rahz.

Gee, you sure look like an idiot now, huh? Maybe you should have consulted the essay I reccomended earlier so that wouldn't have happened.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-08 11:38pm

The Empire was Xenophobic, but they didnt pass up talent when they found it.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-06-09 04:26am

Drunk Monkey wrote:Bounty hunter, assassin same fucking thing. It’s just that bounty hunter sounds cooler then assassin.

Not really. A bounty hunter is someone who skirts on the edge of law in an effort to track down and arrest a fugitive; yes, arrest a fugitive. A bounty hunter more or less works for the law. An assassin in comparison commits 1st degree murder.

BIG difference, at least in theory. People like Boba Fett obviously have a reputation for the latter as well as the former, which can make the former more easy. Needless to say however, Boba Fett would likely be the exception rather than the norm.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-09 04:36am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Purely overanalysis.

...plus a healthy heap of misanalysis thrown in.

Perseid · Post by **Perseid** » 2005-06-09 05:24am

From what i remeber of the EU, Empires policy was NON-huMAN. In other words they discriminated against aliens and women. aliens weren't allowed into the Imperial forces at all, and women were pushed to one side, even the talented ones.
Case in fact, Admiral Daala was not given a promotion despite being better than her male counterparts, ony when Tarkin went to see who this excellent tactician was, at the time she was good but when it came to taking on Ackbar she sucked, did she get noticed and transferred onto his staff and into his bedroom.
Issard was one of the most powerful women in the Empire but only because she was the Emperors lover.
No women were allowed to serve as Stormtroopers, but they were allowed to serve in the Imperial army and Navy, just not in important possitions until the Empire started to collapse and promotions were granted dependant on skill rather than which sex you are. By the time you get to the NJO aliens are even serving in the Imperial forces due to insufficient man power by depending on humans only

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2005-06-09 06:46am

Mr CorSec wrote:From what i remeber of the EU, Empires policy was NON-huMAN. In other words they discriminated against aliens and women.

Is it me or is that hilarious taken out of context and read literally?

JediMaster415 · Post by **JediMaster415** » 2005-06-09 11:42am

Mr CorSec wrote:Issard was one of the most powerful women in the Empire but only because she was the Emperors lover.

The Emperor's lover? I must have missed this when I reread the Rogue Squadron books. Where was it?

Being the Head of the Intelligence, I don't doubt she was the most powerful woman in the galaxy at the time she took over.

Thanas · Post by **Thanas** » 2005-06-09 04:39pm

Isard's revenge, pg. 235-236

Although it isn't certain whether she means that she loved the emperor, or whether they were actual lovers.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-06-09 04:42pm

Mr CorSec wrote:Issard was one of the most powerful women in the Empire but only because she was the Emperors lover.

No thats was only after she betrayed her dad, and became Intel director.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-09 04:54pm

Mr CorSec wrote: Case in fact, Admiral Daala was not given a promotion despite being better than her male counterparts, ony when Tarkin went to see who this excellent tactician was, at the time she was good but when it came to taking on Ackbar she sucked, did she get noticed and transferred onto his staff and into his bedroom.

No, she sucked at most everything, not just taking on Akbar. She lost one of her ships without it even firing a shot simply trying to capture the Sun Crusher and then fled when faced with a crappy fleet of pickets and freighters crewed by former prisoners, she lost another agaisnt an undefended planet by letting it gett rammed by a large unarmed cruiser towing the spacedock with it (in otherwords, moving at a few Gs, not the thousands we are used to - where did the thing get the fuel anyways?), decided that her best bet was to ram a planet with one next and lost it to an angsty teenager, got her ass handed to her at the Maw by Wedge when he only had a couple of personal transports (correlian corvettes) and a light picket (Nebulon- B) at his disposal. Next we see her tactical reccomendations and her XOs loose a star cruiser/battlecruiser to a bunch o Victorys. Then she is getting schooled by Pelleon of all people when she manages a cease fire. Her next big thing is to loose an Executor class star Dreadnaught against a star cruiser (whose series performed so poorly they were no longer being built in the NJO, instead they went back to the old MC80 series) and a few personnel transports (corvettes again). Last we hear of her she was beaten by Bel Iblis.

Her only real victory was gaainst the settlers on Dantooine.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 05:01pm

Her only real victory was gaainst the settlers on Dantooine.

Dont forget the unarmed Ambassadorial ship. A victory Zaff Branagan would be pround of.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-09 05:16pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Her only real victory was gaainst the settlers on Dantooine.
Dont forget the unarmed Ambassadorial ship. A victory Zaff Branagan would be pround of.

Ambassadorial ship was an underling in Darsabre. She took out a transport that had just given supplies to colonists. No fight = no victory.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-09 05:19pm

Ender wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
Her only real victory was gaainst the settlers on Dantooine.
Dont forget the unarmed Ambassadorial ship. A victory Zaff Branagan would be pround of.
Ambassadorial ship was an underling in Darsabre. She took out a transport that had just given supplies to colonists. No fight = no victory.

I was actually refering to the insectiod ambassadorial ship from Dark Apprentice.

And it was a joke.

Perseid · Post by **Perseid** » 2005-06-12 12:49pm

Thanas wrote:Isard's revenge, pg. 235-236

Although it isn't certain whether she means that she loved the emperor, or whether they were actual lovers.

There were rumours at the time to that effect, at least according to Corran.

Ender wrote:No, she sucked at most everything, not just taking on Akbar. She lost one of her ships without it even firing a shot simply trying to capture the Sun Crusher and then fled when faced with a crappy fleet of pickets and freighters crewed by former prisoners, she lost another agaisnt an undefended planet by letting it gett rammed by a large unarmed cruiser towing the spacedock with it (in otherwords, moving at a few Gs, not the thousands we are used to - where did the thing get the fuel anyways?), decided that her best bet was to ram a planet with one next and lost it to an angsty teenager, got her ass handed to her at the Maw by Wedge when he only had a couple of personal transports (correlian corvettes) and a light picket (Nebulon- B) at his disposal. Next we see her tactical reccomendations and her XOs loose a star cruiser/battlecruiser to a bunch o Victorys. Then she is getting schooled by Pelleon of all people when she manages a cease fire. Her next big thing is to loose an Executor class star Dreadnaught against a star cruiser (whose series performed so poorly they were no longer being built in the NJO, instead they went back to the old MC80 series) and a few personnel transports (corvettes again). Last we hear of her she was beaten by Bel Iblis.

Her only real victory was gaainst the settlers on Dantooine.

I was going by her personal history, from what is said about it in the books she doesn't get to leave Cardia before Tarkin takes notice of this Officer that has come up with new tactics and goes to investigate

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2005-06-12 01:17pm

Mr CorSec wrote:I was going by her personal history, from what is said about it in the books she doesn't get to leave Cardia before Tarkin takes notice of this Officer that has come up with new tactics and goes to investigate

Dialogue is no subsitute for actual results !