One Nation under Odin

[The Yosemite Bear]

what if the political mores of the united states were dominated by Norse, and that every rabid fundy was an actual frothing at the mouth bersarker? Would things be worse, better or at least more recognizeable.....

[Falkenhayn]

what if the political mores of the united states were dominated by Norse, and that every rabid fundy was an actual frothing at the mouth bersarker? Would things be worse, better or at least more recognizeable.....

*Hides his mead horn*

Hey, if that's what fundamentalism in a polytheism looks like...

But seriously, the only existing body of knowledge anyone seems to have on the Norse Pantheon is the mythology behind each of the Gods, though they were all mortal and hardly omnipotent. Do they have any teachings, a holy book, did they generate an ecclesiastic structure?

[fgalkin]

There is no such thing as pagan fundamentalism as that requires a written holy text and a long history of development, something that (AFAIK) all pagan religions lack.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Imperial Overlord]

They do have the long history of development (Baldur the White was pretty much an add on after encountering Christianity), but most of our source material is work written after the Scandinavian nations turned Christian. Our best picture is a snapshot of the end of the religion.

However, since Norse pagans didnt' deny the existence of other gods it wouldn't be the same thing a modern fundementalism. It would be something like "The ways of the All Father are the best and the supremecy of the West is proof of that."

[Mouseychan]

There is accualy a cartoon no this.. I wonder if I can find it. Basically it was science on one side and norse on the other in a very fundie style.

[Eleas]

Thing is, though, nowhere are the Aesir depicted as being morally correct; the Aesir just are. It's harder to be an obnoxious fundamentalist if the religion you espouse makes no judgements, moral or otherwise. The only thing that religion really says is that, in the end, we're basically fucked, and that after its death, the world is born anew.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Sounds better to me, at least then it'll be easier to criticize the fundies of blood eagleing.

[Chmee]

Sounds like an improvement, instead of fundies who react to dissenting viewpoints with 'Sin!' we could get 'Yeah, whatever .... MORE MEAD!'

Also, the USMC would look badass at formal ceremonies with big berserker axes instead of sabres.

The military recruiters would be turning people away if the percentage of fundies is the same as it is today, though .... all the fundie kids would be competing for the chance to die on the field of battle and be carried off by Valkyries.

[Patrick Degan]

For a start, the Capital One credit card would be banned under religious law.

[Winston Blake]

Fools! The Great Norse Conspiracy is already upon the world! Do you not know what the names of the days of the week mean? SEE! They have infiltrated our society at a most basic level! Millions are forced to pray to their perverted Gods daily! REPENT!

They're watching me right now

[Zero]

Dude, if the fundies in the US believed in the Nordic pentheon, they'd be even more rabit. They'd be out to kill anybody who disagreed with 'em, and make that person a quick and bloody sacrifice to the all-father, or possibly to Thor, if they feel so inclined.

[wolveraptor]

Uh no. Since when did the Norse commit human sacrifices? We'd be a militaristic nation, yes, and would've probably taken over some country or other by now, but we wouldn't be killing anyone who disagreed with us. We'd just be killing them if they didn't give us their stuff.

The Norse mythology actually does make some moral judgements. For example, dying a straw death is unacceptable, and one must be courageous and valiant in battle and to death. Police and military forces would swell overnight, but there is a limit. Ultimately, the number of Nordic fundies would be limited by the number of spots in armies, police forces, fire fighting squads, or any other dangerous occupation that served and protected people.

Berserkers may not actually be fundies. They were not well-liked by the rest of Norse society, because they were just insane. They didn't wear armor to battle, believing Odin would protect them, and attacked just about anything in their path, friend or foe. Some speculate this fury was brought on by hallucinogenic drugs.

In a modern day army, a berserker would be useless, and so their numbers would be virtually non-existant.

[Lonestar]

Uh no. Since when did the Norse commit human sacrifices? We'd be a militaristic nation, yes, and would've probably taken over some country or other by now, but we wouldn't be killing anyone who disagreed with us. We'd just be killing them if they didn't give us their stuff.
.

Odin required Human sacrifices, IIRC.

[Zero]

Yes, in some Norse cultures, that was actually how they believed you got inot Valhalla. Death in battle is the common one, but that counted as a sacrifice to Odin anyways. Battles were given to him.

[Eleas]

It was called "blot", but human sacrifice was never common. Usually, you hoisted up the odd animal.

wolveraptor: Yes, dying a straw death was unacceptable. However, it was pretty much a given that most people crapped out in the Game of Life, anyway. To clarify, it wasn't really a moral imperative - it had more to do with the fact that Odin liked this and that sort of behavior.

[SyntaxVorlon]

There is accualy a cartoon no this.. I wonder if I can find it. Basically it was science on one side and norse on the other in a very fundie style.

Nonsequitor is what you are thinking about. The sunday edition is any number of miniseries the guy creates.

[wolveraptor]

Yes, in some Norse cultures, that was actually how they believed you got inot Valhalla. Death in battle is the common one, but that counted as a sacrifice to Odin anyways. Battles were given to him.

Conceded, but it surely wasn't a common practice among most tribes. Nordic religion was extremely decentralized, like Hinduism, with variants in every town. That's why conversion to Christianity wasn't particularly difficult.

[Broomstick]

Uh no. Since when did the Norse commit human sacrifices?

Sources for human sacrifice for Odin include Adam von Bremen, an 11th Century chronicler, regarding human sacrfice to Odin at Uppsala, Sweden in the same time period; and Saxo Grammaticus' Geste Danorum. This practice apparently revolved around hanging men and/or horses from trees.

And somebody was strangling people and tossing their bodies into Danish peat bogs for awhile... although it's debatable whether that was religious sacrifice or criminal execution.

[Eleas]

Sources for human sacrifice for Odin include Adam von Bremen, an 11th Century chronicler, regarding human sacrfice to Odin at Uppsala, Sweden in the same time period; and Saxo Grammaticus' Geste Danorum. This practice apparently revolved around hanging men and/or horses from trees.

And somebody was strangling people and tossing their bodies into Danish peat bogs for awhile... although it's debatable whether that was religious sacrifice or criminal execution.

I knew about Bloteträd, but this...

Fuck me, we had a Danish Thugee cult! WOOT!

[wolveraptor]

Huh. They obviously stole the tree thing from possible remnants of the Druidic religion.

[Patrick Degan]

Huh. They obviously stole the tree thing from possible remnants of the Druidic religion.

Not quite. According to myth, Odin was hung the world-tree Yggdrasil by his own hand, wounded by his own spear. By this ordeal, he gained the knowledge of the runes and the nine magickal charms by which he received his godlike wisdom. The subsequent tradition held that hanged men would be visited by Odin himself or that his ravens would fly to him.

[wolveraptor]

Well then maybe THAT myth was influenced by the Druidic religion. Keep in mind that the Norse stole a lot of stuff from the Celts, who had an older culture. Also know that the Norse were somewhat Germanic; i.e., they established themselves only after the real Germans and Celts did. Odin was ripped-off Lugh, the one eyed, spear-wielding, raven-taming god of the Celts whom we know so little about. He was also the chief god of the Celtic religion.

Therefore, it may have been possible that Esus, god of something or other, whose animal was the bull or crane, and whose sacrificial victims were hung from trees. Because Odin was hung from a tree to obtain knowledge, maybe Esus was the god of learning in the Celtic pantheon. Of course, we don't know, but the similarities and proximities of the two cultures almost mandate some diffusion.

[Patrick Degan]

Well then maybe THAT myth was influenced by the Druidic religion. Keep in mind that the Norse stole a lot of stuff from the Celts, who had an older culture. Also know that the Norse were somewhat Germanic; i.e., they established themselves only after the real Germans and Celts did. Odin was ripped-off Lugh, the one eyed, spear-wielding, raven-taming god of the Celts whom we know so little about. He was also the chief god of the Celtic religion.

Therefore, it may have been possible that Esus, god of something or other, whose animal was the bull or crane, and whose sacrificial victims were hung from trees. Because Odin was hung from a tree to obtain knowledge, maybe Esus was the god of learning in the Celtic pantheon. Of course, we don't know, but the similarities and proximities of the two cultures almost mandate some diffusion.

It's hard to tell. Ancient peoples migrated back and forth across whole continents, traditions were borrowed or adapted. You go far enough back in time and you end up discovering that the so-called "originators" of a particular religious belief or tradition were predated themselves by somebody else. What you suggest is possible.

[Zero]

Huh. They obviously stole the tree thing from possible remnants of the Druidic religion.

Not quite. According to myth, Odin was hung the world-tree Yggdrasil by his own hand, wounded by his own spear. By this ordeal, he gained the knowledge of the runes and the nine magickal charms by which he received his godlike wisdom. The subsequent tradition held that hanged men would be visited by Odin himself or that his ravens would fly to him.

He also sacrificed his eye to Mimir, for a drink from the well of knowledge. Sacrificing himself for greater knowledge seems to be his thing...

[wolveraptor]

Yeah, but I'd say the overall theme of the Norse pantheon is kickass against unbeatable odds, and rising anew from the ashes with some LOTR-esque music playing in your ears.

















Howard Shore is a fucking genius, I tell you.