Next-gen DVD format war back on

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2005-06-10 07:11am

Times wrote:Chance of DVD format battle being averted is 'almost zero'

From Leo Lewis, in Tokyo

A SENIOR executive at Sony has ruled out any hope of creating a global standard for new high-definition DVDs.

The intervention of Ken Kutaragi, the man behind PlayStation, increases the likelihood of a showdown between Sony’s Blu-ray disc and Toshiba’s HD-DVD format.

Two technology consortiums representing more than 200 of the world’s biggest IT and media companies and, led by the two Japanese electronics giants, have been negotiating over a new format. But the talks have faltered and Mr Kutaragi, widely seen as Sony’s top technology brain, yesterday described the chances of unifying the rival formats as “almost zero”, adding that efforts to find common ground between the consortiums had proved “very difficult”.

The two new DVD formats differ in several critical ways: Blu-ray technology is believed to produce a higher-definition image and the discs themselves can carry more data. The HD-DVD format’s main attraction is that it can be produced more cheaply.

The failure to agree on a unified format means that when Sony’s latest games console, PlayStation 3, is launched next spring it will be a Blu-ray machine. The Blu-Ray consortium also includes Hewlett-Packard, Apple and Dell, which will push Blu-ray as the main disc format for computers.

The situation will disappoint major film studios, who would have been the chief beneficiaries of a unified format. If a format war develops the studios will be forced either to take a gamble and back only one format, or publish material on both at much higher cost.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-10 07:16am

Well this sucks.
guess i dont need an upgrade to a hi-def capable tv screen for a good many years to come.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-06-10 07:27am

Fuck Sony. It'll end up being a proprietary Format.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-10 07:34am

Roughly speaking, Blue ray is the more open format, (in terms of DRM)

in the long run it's easier to improve for the consumers but it's initial price will be 10$ above a normal dvd compared to 10 cents for the cheaper hd-dvd.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-06-10 08:02am

Fuck Toshiba. Those bastards were actually the most stubborn of the two corporations in the talks. Sony was willing to bend a hell of a lot more than they were.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-10 08:04am

Amen, problem is HD will have an advantage due to movie studio support because of all it's onboard DRM

Loner · Post by **Loner** » 2005-06-10 10:52am

the .303 bookworm wrote:Well this sucks.
guess i dont need an upgrade to a hi-def capable tv screen for a good many years to come.

Well companies do sell players that upconvert current DVDs for HD monitors. As for the topic at hand, as I said in the Batman thread, I'll wait for some Chinese company to release a player that reads both formats.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-10 11:13am

the .303 bookworm wrote:
Well this sucks.
guess i dont need an upgrade to a hi-def capable tv screen for a good many years to come.

As for the topic at hand, as I said in the Batman thread, I'll wait for some Chinese company to release a player that reads both formats.

Problem is they use very different technologies, it would need a dual drive

.

Well companies do sell players that upconvert current DVDs for HD monitors.

Is the quality any good?

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2005-06-10 11:20am

the .303 bookworm wrote:Amen, problem is HD will have an advantage due to movie studio support because of all it's onboard DRM

HD-DVD has a siginificant advantage because it is cheaper to retool existing DVD pressing factories to HD-DVD.

Blue-Ray requires complete new equipment which costs some mega $$$.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-10 11:24am

the .303 bookworm wrote:
Amen, problem is HD will have an advantage due to movie studio support because of all it's onboard DRM Evil or Very Mad

HD-DVD has a siginificant advantage because it is cheaper to retool existing DVD pressing factories to HD-DVD.

Blue-Ray requires complete new equipment which costs some mega $$$.

, forgot st say that, thanks for stating it
in the Long run the prices should match however

Loner · Post by **Loner** » 2005-06-10 03:28pm

Some say the format the porn industry chooses will be the winning one.

Loner · Post by **Loner** » 2005-06-10 03:41pm

the .303 bookworm wrote:
Well companies do sell players that upconvert current DVDs for HD monitors.
Is the quality any good?

Read through the reviews of these progressive -scan players at Amazon, I think the ones with an HDMI output upconvert the video signal.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2005-06-10 04:08pm

Loner wrote:
the .303 bookworm wrote:
Well companies do sell players that upconvert current DVDs for HD monitors.
Is the quality any good?
Read through the reviews of these progressive -scan players at Amazon, I think the ones with an HDMI output upconvert the video signal.

Which is a waste of money if you have an LCD, LCD Projection, Plasma or DLP HDTV, because its own internal scaler will convert a standard DVD player's 480p signal (and even the older 480i) to its native format anyway (however, if your TV has a shitty scaler, an upconverting DVD player could be worth it).

Loner · Post by **Loner** » 2005-06-10 04:25pm

Arrow Mk84 wrote:
Loner wrote:
the .303 bookworm wrote: Is the quality any good?
Read through the reviews of these progressive -scan players at Amazon, I think the ones with an HDMI output upconvert the video signal.
Which is a waste of money if you have an LCD, LCD Projection, Plasma or DLP HDTV, because its own internal scaler will convert a standard DVD player's 480p signal (and even the older 480i) to its native format anyway (however, if your TV has a shitty scaler, an upconverting DVD player could be worth it).

What about CRT Direct view HDTVs?

HyperionX · Post by **HyperionX** » 2005-06-10 04:37pm

Luckily for us we'll probably see the rise of dual-format disc players. I don't think that they'll be much of a major format war a la VHS/Betamax.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2005-06-10 06:03pm

Loner wrote:What about CRT Direct view HDTVs?

I'd guess they'd have one, but I'm not sure. If you poke around avsforum.com, you could probably find out (they discuss everything A/V related).

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-06-10 06:38pm

HyperionX wrote:Luckily for us we'll probably see the rise of dual-format disc players. I don't think that they'll be much of a major format war a la VHS/Betamax.

dual format players are expensive and clunky. sans two separate loading trays in the player, getting a blu-ray disc and hddvd disc to work in the same tray would be akin to getting a vhs tape and beta cartridge to work in the same machine/loader.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-06-10 06:50pm

I bet this wouldn't even have become a problem if Sony didn't have a history of stubbornly trying to foist its own standards on the marketplace. If they come across as too aggressive with Blu-Ray, it could hurt PS3 sales.

More expensive? They're dead. The average consumer doesn't care about the highest quality or biggest capacity. They care about price. They'll see the 50% premium, they'll see "Sony", and they'll think, "Fuck those price-gouging Japs!"

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2005-06-10 06:55pm

Just wonderful, I see this heading the way of DVD-audio and SACD, which were supposed to replace the audio CD. In both cases we have an existing format which most people are happy with, and the proposed replacement is just an increase in quality and resolution which people won't notice unless they're using high-end equipment or they spend big bucks to get the latest gear.

Prediction. The DVD will continue to be the mainstream video format for at least another 5 years, with Blu-ray and HD-DVD getting a small niche market at the high end. Just like the audio market.

HyperionX · Post by **HyperionX** » 2005-06-10 09:04pm

Darth_Zod wrote:dual format players are expensive and clunky. sans two separate loading trays in the player, getting a blu-ray disc and hddvd disc to work in the same tray would be akin to getting a vhs tape and beta cartridge to work in the same machine/loader.

Ridiculous. Both BR and HD-DVD disks are exactly the same size. Why would you need two loading trays?

EDIT: Nevermind. explain why a dual format player will be clunky seeing how the CD/DVD player on your PC you wrote your post on probably supports 2 different formats at least.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-06-10 09:06pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Sony was willing to bend a hell of a lot more than they were.

Hahahaha, yeah right. Sony's the company that created it's own exclusive
media formats over and over and over in the last 20 years, from MD to
Memory Sticks, etc; may they crash and burn.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-11 12:53am

Darth_Zod wrote:
dual format players are expensive and clunky. sans two separate loading trays in the player, getting a blu-ray disc and hddvd disc to work in the same tray would be akin to getting a vhs tape and beta cartridge to work in the same machine/loader.

Ridiculous. Both BR and HD-DVD disks are exactly the same size. Why would you need two loading trays?

EDIT: Nevermind. explain why a dual format player will be clunky seeing how the CD/DVD player on your PC you wrote your post on probably supports 2 different formats at least.

It’s akin to playing a cd and SAC-D (Audio dvd), theyre both disks but the technology is different, they use a different type of laser "types (frequencies)) & intensitys as well as different compression techniques per layer.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Sony was willing to bend a hell of a lot more than they were.

Hahahaha, yeah right. Sony’s the company that created it’s own exclusive
media formats over and over and over in the last 20 years, from MD to
Memory Sticks, etc; may they crash and burn.

Nope, they really were & BD is more open,
Sony has a LOT riding on this so they knew they needed the support from guys like Apple,EA etc..

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-06-11 04:08am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Fuck Toshiba. Those bastards were actually the most stubborn of the two corporations in the talks. Sony was willing to bend a hell of a lot more than they were.

Are you joking? When it was announced that they were talking, Sony basicly said "Any decisions we make will only result in the furthering of Blu-ray" or something to that line- basicly, we're going to make Toshiba use Blu-ray, or the talks are done.

I personally like HD-DVD. Cheaper, harder to scratch, did I say cheaper, and the capacity is still huge (45 GB at three layers is plenty).