Ep3 review thread SPOILERS
Moderator: Vympel
I'm hoping someone could give me insight here. I have been hearing from a lot of people that Mace Windu brought the three worst Jedi with him to face Sideous. I recall someone mentioning that the Jedi he brought with him were not, in fact, the worst Jedi. I can't seem to find that post, and where it exactly was posted. Does anyone have any information on if the statement "three worst Jedi " is accurate? I want to slap them with some SW info.
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Lord Revan
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the worst in what way, as those Jedi were all council members (and at least 2 out of 3 were among the most talented Lightsaber users of the Order).mplsjocc wrote:I'm hoping someone could give me insight here. I have been hearing from a lot of people that Mace Windu brought the three worst Jedi with him to face Sideous. I recall someone mentioning that the Jedi he brought with him were not, in fact, the worst Jedi. I can't seem to find that post, and where it exactly was posted. Does anyone have any information on if the statement "three worst Jedi " is accurate? I want to slap them with some SW info.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
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Manus Celer Dei
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I beleive the novels states that Fisto and Kolar were "two of the finest bladesbeings in the Jedi Order". And, IIRC Tiin was the Order's best pilot after Anakin. Though I'm not sure why that would make him a good choice for lightsaber combat 
"We will build cities in a day!"
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Availability and trustworthiness.Manus Celer Dei wrote:I beleive the novels states that Fisto and Kolar were "two of the finest bladesbeings in the Jedi Order". And, IIRC Tiin was the Order's best pilot after Anakin. Though I'm not sure why that would make him a good choice for lightsaber combat
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AniThyng
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As someone who followed those 3 Jedi through their Clone Wars adventures, I must say it was really sad to see them go down with barely enough time to go "ARrgh..." *crumple*. 
A question for those who watched it in German/language other then english - how does vader's NOOOOOOO end up? "NIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!"?
I was thinking about that the other day and wondering...
A question for those who watched it in German/language other then english - how does vader's NOOOOOOO end up? "NIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!"?
I was thinking about that the other day and wondering...
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character
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General Brock
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This is a Repost/Rewrite, filled out a bit to make it a proper review and placed in what is hopefully the correct forum this time. Sorry about that Mr. Bean.
My Impressions of ROTS
Well, I finally got the chance to see ROTS, which means I can more freely browse these forums without fear of further spoilers. This is an excellent film, and it has only a few minor nitpicks, which are nothing much.
The opening credits had me worried; it was abrupt and lacked the epic feel of the other preambles.
Then, the opening battle scene dragged a bit; Obi-Wan's "There's the flagship' needed only be said once, then have Anakin say, "And here's company!' and let the guided missiles fly. Lucas does not have Speilberg's feel for a tight chase scene, and it came off as just a showboating of SW FX with a forced buddy scene to justify it.
The premise of rescuing Palpatine confirms a pattern of behavior seen in TPM; Darth Sidious is more clever than wise, a wasteful gambler who's ego can't resist putting him in danger to personally realize a plan that, although well set up, always relies on an element of chance and improvisation to be concluded.
In the contrived kidnapping, Dooku's strike force was devastated by Coruscant's defenders, and the flagship was too damaged to land safely, let alone escape into lightspeed. Even though it seems to have been his plan to be rescued and have Dooku killed, Palpatine was nervous about the crash-landing, indicating he did not wholly forsee or plan for it, and wasting so many ships and lives was insane.
Palpatine/Sidious also risked his life to lure Anakin to the Dark Side, and was injured more so than he probably expected. Although he could have easily defeated Windu, he held back, and seemed to goad Windu into joining the dark side as well. Windu's initial plan was simply to arrest Palpatine, with the certainty that the Jedi could control the Senate, then at the last minute, Windu seemed to realize Palpatine controlled the Senate and Judiciary and was too dangerous to let live. By compelling Windu to attempt to execute him, instead of just arresting him, and Palpatine's obviously contrived (to the audiance) begging for his life, seemed to turn Anakin once and for all, indicating that the decision to join the Dark Side must be made by a Jedi without Force influence. Those sort of subtle touches are nice work.
The lightsaber combat scenes were all well done, with a nice mix of close cut-scene editing and more holistic panoramas that encompass of all the action, which too many swordfight scenes in other movies, such as LOTR, either leave out or just can't do.
However, Darth Sidious dispatched the first three Jedi too unskillfully; I would have expected well-timed point attacks with disengages on the first two Jedi, finishing with a lightning thrust, with no little windup pump on the final thrust, to demonstrate how well he owned the Jedi. The fact that the Jedi didn't spread out a little, and seemed to get in each other's way, was a good indicator of their arrogance and inexperience, and may be why they went down so fast. If they were relying on precog to fight, there would have been instant information overload if they still couldn't fight as a team. Finally, the Sith use more efficient thrusting techniques, compared to the graceful sweeping cuts the Jedi seem to prefer; this is a sharp contrast of styles that works well, especially in close quarters.
I don't know if Palpatine is a human mutant, or warped by previous usage of dark force, and cosmetically fixed, or if that transformation is what happens to Sith who embrace the dark side too quickly. Some threads here indicate it was a disguise that melted away. In any case, if he was a student of Plageus, he didn't do a good job of healing himself.
The little bits of lore that keep being revealed in each movie are kind of fun. It is interesting that Darth Plageus could prolong the life of others, not himself. Perhaps he thought that being so useful would protect him from an ambitious apprentice. While it is not clear if Sidious was his student, Palpatine obviously could not heal himself or Vader that well, and relied on clones to keep himself going. On the other hand, who knows how old Palpatine/Sideous really is.
Part of me wonders of Mace Windu could still be alive; it's not like its unprecidented for Jedi to miraculously survive long falls, and it's not like he exploded. He just disappeared into the city screaming and trailing force lightning.
Obi-Wan seems a little soft; he gets knocked about and out pretty easy, but his General Greivous subplot was well done. Greivous was needed as the last effective Separatist leader, but I don't know why the preamble described him as a droid, when he was a cyborg. The subplot showed the bonds that seemed to have formed between the clonetroopers and their Jedi generals; Cody rescued Obi-Wan's lightsaber, and they were on friendly terms. The unquestioning, enthusiastic good-soldier acceptance of Order 66 really brings home the unnaturalness of the clonetroopers and the shock and surprise of many of the betrayed Jedi is apparent in their too-short death cameos.
The Separatists, at least the Neimodian leaders, seemed to have been in on the Palpatine/Sideous connection from the beginning; the last one said as much, that Sidious promised peace after he gained power, as Darth Vader killed him. I think it is there that Darth Vader comes to grips with just how used he has been, recovers from his betrayal of the Jedi, and decides Palpatine must also go.
Padme's death was sad. It would have been nice if she could have at least held her children once. A Sith attack with deadly intent must poison midi-chlorians; perhaps no big deal to a Jedi, but obviously fatal for an ordinary human. The poisoning didn't affect the twins, since they lived; or perhaps it did in some way; Luke and Leia were exceptionally strong in the force. Another element of pathos; Padme's last words were that Anakin still had some good in him. Even though he just tried to crush her throat with the force.
Her death might explain why Vader never seized power in the intervening years between ROTS and ANH. He was never able to fully embrace his anger and weild fully the power of the Dark Side after it had killed Padme. Sidious knows it, too, standing smugly to one side as Darth Vader is howling in anguish, he knows Vader will never realize his potential and become strong enough to overcome him. Vader's ambitions do not find new purpose until he realizes he has a son in TESB.
If one were to sit down and watch the entire prequel trilogy, the first two movies wouldn't seem as bad.... nah.
I would credit ROTS to the roar of the fans making it past Lucas' yes-men peddling their own agandas, to his own ears. As much as he would deny it and claim he is doing things his own way, Lucas seems to have been acting on bad advice ever since he decided Ewoks would sell better than Wookies, but at least Kashyyk is not killed off by death star debris. Not that it could have been, being a modern planet with all the defense-sheild trimmings. Lucas seems to be making the connection that what the fans want is what sells, and that there are some intelligent fans out there worth listening too more so than his marketing cling-ons and syncophants.
It is good that the serial ends on such a powerful note, and hopefully I'll see it one more time on a quality screen before it hits the cheap theatre. Personally, I think Lucas might still have it in him to do three more. He's not that old yet, and it has been reported that he had up to twelve episodes in mind at one point.
My Impressions of ROTS
Well, I finally got the chance to see ROTS, which means I can more freely browse these forums without fear of further spoilers. This is an excellent film, and it has only a few minor nitpicks, which are nothing much.
The opening credits had me worried; it was abrupt and lacked the epic feel of the other preambles.
Then, the opening battle scene dragged a bit; Obi-Wan's "There's the flagship' needed only be said once, then have Anakin say, "And here's company!' and let the guided missiles fly. Lucas does not have Speilberg's feel for a tight chase scene, and it came off as just a showboating of SW FX with a forced buddy scene to justify it.
The premise of rescuing Palpatine confirms a pattern of behavior seen in TPM; Darth Sidious is more clever than wise, a wasteful gambler who's ego can't resist putting him in danger to personally realize a plan that, although well set up, always relies on an element of chance and improvisation to be concluded.
In the contrived kidnapping, Dooku's strike force was devastated by Coruscant's defenders, and the flagship was too damaged to land safely, let alone escape into lightspeed. Even though it seems to have been his plan to be rescued and have Dooku killed, Palpatine was nervous about the crash-landing, indicating he did not wholly forsee or plan for it, and wasting so many ships and lives was insane.
Palpatine/Sidious also risked his life to lure Anakin to the Dark Side, and was injured more so than he probably expected. Although he could have easily defeated Windu, he held back, and seemed to goad Windu into joining the dark side as well. Windu's initial plan was simply to arrest Palpatine, with the certainty that the Jedi could control the Senate, then at the last minute, Windu seemed to realize Palpatine controlled the Senate and Judiciary and was too dangerous to let live. By compelling Windu to attempt to execute him, instead of just arresting him, and Palpatine's obviously contrived (to the audiance) begging for his life, seemed to turn Anakin once and for all, indicating that the decision to join the Dark Side must be made by a Jedi without Force influence. Those sort of subtle touches are nice work.
The lightsaber combat scenes were all well done, with a nice mix of close cut-scene editing and more holistic panoramas that encompass of all the action, which too many swordfight scenes in other movies, such as LOTR, either leave out or just can't do.
However, Darth Sidious dispatched the first three Jedi too unskillfully; I would have expected well-timed point attacks with disengages on the first two Jedi, finishing with a lightning thrust, with no little windup pump on the final thrust, to demonstrate how well he owned the Jedi. The fact that the Jedi didn't spread out a little, and seemed to get in each other's way, was a good indicator of their arrogance and inexperience, and may be why they went down so fast. If they were relying on precog to fight, there would have been instant information overload if they still couldn't fight as a team. Finally, the Sith use more efficient thrusting techniques, compared to the graceful sweeping cuts the Jedi seem to prefer; this is a sharp contrast of styles that works well, especially in close quarters.
I don't know if Palpatine is a human mutant, or warped by previous usage of dark force, and cosmetically fixed, or if that transformation is what happens to Sith who embrace the dark side too quickly. Some threads here indicate it was a disguise that melted away. In any case, if he was a student of Plageus, he didn't do a good job of healing himself.
The little bits of lore that keep being revealed in each movie are kind of fun. It is interesting that Darth Plageus could prolong the life of others, not himself. Perhaps he thought that being so useful would protect him from an ambitious apprentice. While it is not clear if Sidious was his student, Palpatine obviously could not heal himself or Vader that well, and relied on clones to keep himself going. On the other hand, who knows how old Palpatine/Sideous really is.
Part of me wonders of Mace Windu could still be alive; it's not like its unprecidented for Jedi to miraculously survive long falls, and it's not like he exploded. He just disappeared into the city screaming and trailing force lightning.
Obi-Wan seems a little soft; he gets knocked about and out pretty easy, but his General Greivous subplot was well done. Greivous was needed as the last effective Separatist leader, but I don't know why the preamble described him as a droid, when he was a cyborg. The subplot showed the bonds that seemed to have formed between the clonetroopers and their Jedi generals; Cody rescued Obi-Wan's lightsaber, and they were on friendly terms. The unquestioning, enthusiastic good-soldier acceptance of Order 66 really brings home the unnaturalness of the clonetroopers and the shock and surprise of many of the betrayed Jedi is apparent in their too-short death cameos.
The Separatists, at least the Neimodian leaders, seemed to have been in on the Palpatine/Sideous connection from the beginning; the last one said as much, that Sidious promised peace after he gained power, as Darth Vader killed him. I think it is there that Darth Vader comes to grips with just how used he has been, recovers from his betrayal of the Jedi, and decides Palpatine must also go.
Padme's death was sad. It would have been nice if she could have at least held her children once. A Sith attack with deadly intent must poison midi-chlorians; perhaps no big deal to a Jedi, but obviously fatal for an ordinary human. The poisoning didn't affect the twins, since they lived; or perhaps it did in some way; Luke and Leia were exceptionally strong in the force. Another element of pathos; Padme's last words were that Anakin still had some good in him. Even though he just tried to crush her throat with the force.
Her death might explain why Vader never seized power in the intervening years between ROTS and ANH. He was never able to fully embrace his anger and weild fully the power of the Dark Side after it had killed Padme. Sidious knows it, too, standing smugly to one side as Darth Vader is howling in anguish, he knows Vader will never realize his potential and become strong enough to overcome him. Vader's ambitions do not find new purpose until he realizes he has a son in TESB.
If one were to sit down and watch the entire prequel trilogy, the first two movies wouldn't seem as bad.... nah.
I would credit ROTS to the roar of the fans making it past Lucas' yes-men peddling their own agandas, to his own ears. As much as he would deny it and claim he is doing things his own way, Lucas seems to have been acting on bad advice ever since he decided Ewoks would sell better than Wookies, but at least Kashyyk is not killed off by death star debris. Not that it could have been, being a modern planet with all the defense-sheild trimmings. Lucas seems to be making the connection that what the fans want is what sells, and that there are some intelligent fans out there worth listening too more so than his marketing cling-ons and syncophants.
It is good that the serial ends on such a powerful note, and hopefully I'll see it one more time on a quality screen before it hits the cheap theatre. Personally, I think Lucas might still have it in him to do three more. He's not that old yet, and it has been reported that he had up to twelve episodes in mind at one point.