Family Sues Over Bible Study Ban During Recess
School Board Rules Recess Not Free Time
POSTED: 1:11 pm EDT June 9, 2005
UPDATED: 1:19 pm EDT June 9, 2005
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- A 10-year-old boy and his parents are suing the youngster's school in Knoxville, Tenn., after the principal made them stop studying the Bible during recess.
The lawsuit said that fourth-grader Luke Whitson and some of his friends began a Bible study at recess during the school year, but another parent complained to the principal.
The Whitsons said the principal "demanded that they stop their activity at once, put their Bibles away and, from that point forward, cease from bringing their Bibles to school."
School officials declined comment.
But last month, the Knox County Board of Education said that while reading the Bible is acceptable during free time, recess is not considered free time.
Recess is to try and get people moving, not sitting down and quitely reading.
That said if the school is not providing any activies besides "Go out there and run around in circules" then it should be free time and the kids are right on this one.
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The answer: Recess is still school time. As the school is a public institution funded by government monies, religion has no place in the school. Otherwise, it's a violation of the seperation clause.
There are no details whatsoever provided about how exactly they were "studying the Bible", so excuse me if I'm a bit skeptical about the validity of the complaint.
The "you can't stop someone from bringing a Bible to school!" argument doesn't work if the person is using the Bible to be disruptive.
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First Amendment doesn't come into it. At school, you do what you're told. That's how it works. If they say put down the damn Bible and run around like a snot-nosed little dork, then you do it. If their recess is designed for that and they tell it so, then that's what you have to comply with.
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Your in school property, yes, but recess is free time. Anyone even read the definition of recess? As long as the kid wasn't proselytizing, they should have let him be. Is there actually rules in that school stating that students are not permitted to read during recess? Or is it that it's because he was reading the Bible, specifically?
If The Infinity Program were not a forum, it would be a pie-in-the-sky project. “Faith is both the prison and the open hand.”— Vienna Teng, "Augustine."
I apologize for my ignorance towards a specific passage of the above article. This Bible study group may have been encouraging kids to take part or feel left out. Or something like that.
Also... I meant "you're", not "your". >_<
If The Infinity Program were not a forum, it would be a pie-in-the-sky project. “Faith is both the prison and the open hand.”— Vienna Teng, "Augustine."
Frankly if they werent bothering anyone then the principle did the violating.
If Anyone tried to make me stop reading at school i’d sue the whole damn system.
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Haruko wrote:Your in school property, yes, but recess is free time. Anyone even read the definition of recess? As long as the kid wasn't proselytizing, they should have let him be. Is there actually rules in that school stating that students are not permitted to read during recess? Or is it that it's because he was reading the Bible, specifically?
Technically, recess is only as "free" as the school declares it to be.
If school board rulings say recess is not free time, it is not free time.
What I don't understand is how a group of kids decided to do this on their own without asking permission first. "Is it ok if we have a club..." sort of thing.
Yeah, I'm really in the dark over that one.
Actually, I think it's kind of fucked up. Considering this is elementary school, I've always thought of recess as free time -> Free to do whatever we want to do within reason. The principal had no reason to stop them from reading the Bible, or the Koran or whatever they wanted to read.
I've seen people who block stairwells in their attempt to be as disruptive and obnoxious as possible in their "private" religious practices.
If this kid wanted to read the Bible, he could do so quietly and by himself somewhere on the schoolyard. He obviously felt that wasn't good enough; think about that.
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I'm gonna have to go with the 'it's not free time' crowd here. I've always been a lazy bum, so whenever I had recess back in the day I would try to do something that took a minimum of effort, like play a Game Boy (y'know, the old ones the size of a brick?), and would get yelled at to 'go do something active'. This didn't change even in other states, so I imagine it's fairly standard procedure: Recess is for running around until your sides ache and jumping off of jungle gyms, not for sitting down and reading.
Pick wrote:First Amendment doesn't come into it. At school, you do what you're told. That's how it works. If they say put down the damn Bible and run around like a snot-nosed little dork, then you do it. If their recess is designed for that and they tell it so, then that's what you have to comply with.
Not exactly. A student can't be forced to salute a flag, students can engage in nondisruptive symbolic speech such as wearing black armbands to protest a war, and in general:
Tinker vs. Des Moines School District wrote:In our system, state-operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students in school as well as out of school are "persons" under our Constitution. They are possessed of fundamental rights which the State must respect, just as they themselves must respect their obligations to the State.
The first amendment does apply to children in school. Of course, reasonable restrictions can be put on the freedom of students in order to help the schools accomplish their purpose. The article doesn't give as much detail as I'd like, so I can't form an optinion on who violated the first amendment here.
Darth Wong wrote:I've seen people who block stairwells in their attempt to be as disruptive and obnoxious as possible in their "private" religious practices.
If this kid wanted to read the Bible, he could do so quietly and by himself somewhere on the schoolyard. He obviously felt that wasn't good enough; think about that.
Possibly... but I don't think anyone can make any conclusions to the intentions of the kid's reading with that little amount of information.
Darth Wong wrote:I've seen people who block stairwells in their attempt to be as disruptive and obnoxious as possible in their "private" religious practices.
If this kid wanted to read the Bible, he could do so quietly and by himself somewhere on the schoolyard. He obviously felt that wasn't good enough; think about that.
Who says he and his friends weren't doing that? You need a lot more information than what was presented to say that he was doing anything wrong. How is a Bible study group that doesn't go around in a jackassed manner any different from just a random reading group?
Furthermore, recess is free time. You want to make the fatass kids run? Put'em in PE class. That's what it's for. And if you make recess a time for physical activity only, you might as well have it as a second PE class. Don't call it a recess or break from school if it fucking isn't.
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As cynical as I normally am towards Christians crying oppression, I do think this kid should have the right to study the bible during recess with other people who also wish to study it. As long as he is not bothering anyone or prosletyzing to other students I don't see what the problem is. Furthermore I believe that recess should be free time for students to pursue whatever interests them.
This is just more ammunition for the radical Christians who like to complain about Democrats attacking "people of faith".
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I appreciate the thoughtful responses. I posted that here to see the reactions because I have been told countless times by people about the issue with religion and school that you can still take the Bible to school and pray it just can't be initiated by the school itself and this incident seem to prove that wrong.
Darth RyanKCR wrote:I am curious to see where this will go.
I can predict right now that the story will look a lot different once the school explains its side of the story. Right now what you've got is one family's lawyer telling people what to think, and if you think that's the final word then you're not very experienced in these matters.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
I don't see how recess isn't by definition free time. My school didn't bother you if you just felt like sitting up against the wall reading. I did that until I discovered that when the teachers weren't watching, the football game became full contact. I couldn't catch, run, or pass, but I could by-God hit people.
EDIT: That sounds like I'm trying to use anecdotal evidence. I'm not. The anecdote just grew longer than the point.
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Darth RyanKCR wrote:I am curious to see where this will go.
I can predict right now that the story will look a lot different once the school explains its side of the story. Right now what you've got is one family's lawyer telling people what to think, and if you think that's the final word then you're not very experienced in these matters.
Just another example of reporters running with only half the story.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest "Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
Lord MJ wrote:Legally, the school is in the right. The school has the right to regulate what it's students do at recess.
When I was in kindergarden, the teachers banned all forms of competition at recess or playtime.
We were only allowed to play games that didn't involve competition.
Ethically, I think it was totally wrong to forbid the students from having thier own Bible Study group.
Okay, what game DOESN'T involve competition? You went to a pretty wussy-ass school.
"If one needed proof that a guitar was more than wood and string, that a song was more than notes and words, and that a man could be more than a name and a few faded pictures, then Robert Johnson’s recordings were all one could ask for."
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