Trooper TK12746 wrote:On the DS II, Palpatine was going to be there personally with Vader. And maybe it just didn't work out so well and Palpy decided the costs outweighed the benefits.
Palpatine was supposed to be on the first one as well. A quote from the Star Wars Technical Journal, page 102:
At the exact north "pole" of the station was a tower (the single most highly shielded object on the surface) which was impervious to outside attack. At the top of this 100-story tower was the Emperor's private observation chamber and command post, from which Palpatine could oversee all Death Star operations. The first Death Star was destroyed before the Emperor ever set foot on board . . .
So, it still doesn't work out to have the thermal exhaust port as a fail safe device against rogue warlordism on Tarkin's part.
Dear Lord, the gods have been good to me. As an offering, I present these milk and cookies. If you wish me to eat them instead, please give me no sign whatsoever *pauses* Thy will be done *munch munch munch*. - Homer Simpson
Very well. It could have been a good failsafe though. And using it as an excuse to kill Bevil Lemelisk (is that how you spell it?) in a horrific way would have been just like Palpatine.
Vympel wrote:Was this scene in ANH before or after Vader strangled that Motti fool? He should've broken that moron's neck. You don't mouth off to a Dark Lord of the Sith about how he has a "sad devotion" to an ancient religion, refer to "conjuring up" the stolen data tapes, calling him a "sorceror" and thinking he's trying to "frighten" them.
What a silly twat that guy was. The other guy, Tagge (IIRC?)- is my second favorite Imperial officer after General Veers. Veers wins for sheer military class, Tagge for cool lines that convey being cautious, unassuming, intelligent, and reasonable.
This was after. When Mottie finally came out and outlined the extent of his ambitions to Tarkin, the Death Star was orbiting Yavin.
Darth Wong wrote: It's unknown whether the entire Starfleet could defeat that, but the Death Star was designed to do battle with "a direct large-scale assault", and it would deal out horrific death and destruction to any large-scale attacker.
It makes you wonder, given the galactic environment at the time, what large scale fleets the Death Star was planning on attacking. Surely with the galazy under his thumb and the rebels little more than a pitiful band there wouldnt be anyone capable of even launching an attack on the Death Star.
Last edited by DocHorror on 2005-06-13 01:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
Darth Wong wrote: It's unknown whether the entire Starfleet could defeat that, but the Death Star was designed to do battle with "a direct large-scale assault", and it would deal out horrific death and destruction to any large-scale attacker.
It makes you wonder, given the galactic environment at the time, what large scale fleets the Death Star was planning on attacking. Surely with the galazy under his thumb and the rebels little more than a pitiful band there wouldnt be anyone capable of even launching an attack on the Death Star.
Megalomania\propaganda?
Also he was planning on controling the universe, the DS would be the perfect thing for leading the assault ona galaxy.
Last edited by The Grim Squeaker on 2005-06-13 06:16am, edited 2 times in total.
Photography Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
DocHorror wrote:It makes you wonder, given the galactic environment at the time, what large scale fleets the Death Star was planning on attacking. Surely with the galazy under his thumb and the rebels little more than a pitiful band there wouldnt be anyone capable of even launching an attack on the Death Star.
Pre-Endor warlordism perhaps? In addition, Palpatine might have also considered the possibility that entire systems might rebel. Mon Cal might have been on the hit list.
Dear Lord, the gods have been good to me. As an offering, I present these milk and cookies. If you wish me to eat them instead, please give me no sign whatsoever *pauses* Thy will be done *munch munch munch*. - Homer Simpson
Not only can he not use quote tags, but they're stupid typos too. Use the fucking quote button, damn you.
Perhaps Palpy expected either a) the construction of DS itself or b) the next stage in his Evil Plan(tm) to prompt a wider rebellion? Or maybe it was just a precaution, since it would have been foolish to build such a starship and NOT covered it in millions of guns. Would've fucked the Vong right up.
Or maybe it's simply a terror weapon to keep his empiere in line,Despots are forever fearing loosing their hold on power.
Planting the DS in orbit of a planet on the werge of rebelling should introduce newfound appresiation of the imperial doctrine on the planet,espesially after Alderaan.
There Lives More Faith In Honest Doubt,Belive Me,Than In Half The Creeds. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity."
DocHorror wrote:
It makes you wonder, given the galactic environment at the time, what large scale fleets the Death Star was planning on attacking. Surely with the galazy under his thumb and the rebels little more than a pitiful band there wouldnt be anyone capable of even launching an attack on the Death Star.
To paraphrase the ROTS ICS which mentions the postwar duties of the Venators...
...and, it is rumored, barbarian invaders from outside the galaxy
"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
We know people like Zaarin were already trying to break away from the Empire. I believe it was said in one of the books that the DS was an attempt to bring the IMperial Navy more firmly under Palpatine's control. And Palpatine already knew about the Ssi-Ruuk. Perhaps he would have taken over their star cluster with the [almost] invincible Death Star.
That sentence in the ROTS ICS makes you wonder if Palpy knew about the Yuzhaan Vong too.
Chris OFarrell wrote:You have failed to convince me. Palpitine go's to all the effort of having a computer backdoor system installed into every ISD...so can he look at records? The very specific POINT was that it was built in there so no-one could EVER lock him out from the ships computer systems. Not so he could browse the MP3 collection of the ships commanding officer....
From information, he can access a lot, such as combat records, or where everyone is. Intelligence is important. But leaving such backdoors is already fundamentally unsafe (as a pro-Trek person trying to distract from poor Fed security would point out, there are limits to the likely complexity of such a backdoor code). There is no reason to assume such stupid backdoors extend any further than demonstrated. There is no reason to assume all the critical systems are even attached to the computer with no override.
The MCP is specially added because of the overly automated and powerful nature of the World Devastators, which does allow full control of the ship. If it is something in every Star Destroyer, it wouldn't be worthy of special
The Emperor would have some failsafe system available to stop the Death Star - he is too smart not to have one. His "failsafe" might be just his force abilities, but I'd be shocked if some more mechanical alternative didn't exist. A way to knock out the superlaser and hyperdrive would do fine. Send in the fleet and pound it to crap. This alternative would still avoid the worst of the Star Trek type malfunctions but still give the Emperor protection. After all, no one but the Emperor could afford the losses needed to pound through the DS even w/o the supergun.
Heretical idea: perhaps the exhaust-port vulnerability was deliberately inserted (or allowed to remain) in the design in order to create that backdoor, and Palpatine simply didn't expect the Rebels to ever discover it or be able to exploit it.
Millions of Imperial fighters could have eventually exploited that weakness even without Force-sensitive pilots.
And then, when he had DS2 designed, he had his Imperial overbridge installed so that he could stay onboard personally, to avoid a repeat of the DS1 mistake. Perhaps Bevel Lemelisk came up with the idea of using the exhaust port as the failsafe.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Rogue 9 wrote:Well, he executed Lemelisk for his failure to correct the exhaust port vulnerability, so I don't know how far that would fly.
After a humiliating defeat like that, somebody has to pay the price. Ever heard of the term "fall guy"? If Palpy wanted that exhaust port in there, he sure as fuck would never admit it. In order to keep up appearances, he has to blame someone.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:Heretical idea: perhaps the exhaust-port vulnerability was deliberately inserted (or allowed to remain) in the design in order to create that backdoor, and Palpatine simply didn't expect the Rebels to ever discover it or be able to exploit it.
Millions of Imperial fighters could have eventually exploited that weakness even without Force-sensitive pilots.
And then, when he had DS2 designed, he had his Imperial overbridge installed so that he could stay onboard personally, to avoid a repeat of the DS1 mistake. Perhaps Bevel Lemelisk came up with the idea of using the exhaust port as the failsafe.
This idea is shot down by Darksaber, where the Emperor viciously punishes Lemelisk for his mistake.
Rogue 9 wrote:Well, he executed Lemelisk for his failure to correct the exhaust port vulnerability, so I don't know how far that would fly.
After a humiliating defeat like that, somebody has to pay the price. Ever heard of the term "fall guy"? If Palpy wanted that exhaust port in there, he sure as fuck would never admit it. In order to keep up appearances, he has to blame someone.
Except that he dishes out the punishment in private, then puts Lemelisk's spirit into a freshly cloned body. Nobody else ever finds out, as far as we know, until Lemelisk is captured. What's the point of a fall guy if nobody knows he's taking the fall?
Rogue 9 wrote:Well, he executed Lemelisk for his failure to correct the exhaust port vulnerability, so I don't know how far that would fly.
After a humiliating defeat like that, somebody has to pay the price. Ever heard of the term "fall guy"? If Palpy wanted that exhaust port in there, he sure as fuck would never admit it. In order to keep up appearances, he has to blame someone.
Except that he dishes out the punishment in private, then puts Lemelisk's spirit into a freshly cloned body. Nobody else ever finds out, as far as we know, until Lemelisk is captured. What's the point of a fall guy if nobody knows he's taking the fall?
I dunno, what's the point of an abusive husband beating the shit out of his wife for a mistake he made? It happens all the time, usually with the phrase "look at what you made me do". It's not just public blame; Palpatine would not allow himself to admit that it was his fault.
Besides, the day I take a KJA idea at face value is the day Satan has a snowball fight with Saddam Hussein in Hell.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:I dunno, what's the point of an abusive husband beating the shit out of his wife for a mistake he made? It happens all the time, usually with the phrase "look at what you made me do". It's not just public blame; Palpatine would not allow himself to admit that it was his fault.
OK, that makes sense.
Besides, the day I take a KJA idea at face value is the day Satan has a snowball fight with Saddam Hussein in Hell.
Back on topic. COuld 25000 ISDs and millions of smaller vessels (the loyal Imperial Navy) defeat the DS? I would say given how many fighters they could launch that someone would hit the exhaust port. ANd for fleet combat. one broadside from those ships would clean the turbolasers right off the DS. ANd since it can't fire off-axis, its superlaser is of no help.
I dunno, what's the point of an abusive husband beating the shit out of his wife for a mistake he made? It happens all the time, usually with the phrase "look at what you made me do".
It's because all men are mysoginistic tools of the secret ruling patriarchy, of course!!
I wonder if the DS wasn't part of a plan to squelch the various small militaries (i.e. the Corporate Sector) around the galaxy. Sure, the Starfleet could do that, but maybe Palpatine wanted something that could do it by meer existance.
Shit like this is why I'm kind of glad it isn't legal to go around punching people in the crotch. You'd be able to track my movement from orbit from the sheer mass of idiots I'd leave lying on the ground clutching their privates in my wake. -- Mr. Coffee
Trooper TK12746 wrote:Back on topic. COuld 25000 ISDs and millions of smaller vessels (the loyal Imperial Navy) defeat the DS? I would say given how many fighters they could launch that someone would hit the exhaust port. ANd for fleet combat. one broadside from those ships would clean the turbolasers right off the DS. ANd since it can't fire off-axis, its superlaser is of no help.
The thing is none of the iperial engineers recognized the exhaust ports weakness,
also they woud need to fly a heavily modified tie bomber into the trench for anything approaching proton torpedo level power,
a difficult task considering how clumsy Tie bombers re.
Photography Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.
To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.
The very specific POINT was that it was built in there so no-one could EVER lock him out from the ships computer systems. Not so he could browse the MP3 collection of the ships commanding officer....
