The Vong invade during TPM

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-06-12 12:12am

I have never read NJO. I only know about the Vong from what I picked up reading threads here and some blurbs in the Star Wars RPG Corebook. I know it is a foregone conclusion that the Empire would have curbstomped the Vong but what about the OR at the dawn of their militarization?

Say that the events of TPM change slightly and instead of a Trade Federation fleet blockading the Vong launch their invasion starting with Naboo. The Republic at Palptaine's urging sends a pair of Jedi - Obi Wan and Qui Gon to investigate and if possible negotiate with the Vong. The Vong respond by trying to kill the Jedi and Obi Wan and Qui Gon are trapped on Naboo but manage to let a warning out about the Vong's plans for the rest of the galaxy.

What does the Republic do? Do the Jedi not being soldiers shtick make them react slowly at first to this threat? What about Dooku? Does he attack the Vong, let the Republic and Vong fight it out, try to joing the Vong (highly unlikly with their distaste of technology) and most intriguing of all....how does Palpatine salvage his plans for Galactic domination with these idiot aliens stomping all over his plans.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-06-12 12:31am

Palpatine cackles with glee. Jedi resistant foreign invaders? He manuevers himself to election, militarizes the galaxy, sends the Jedi to their deaths. He uses the war to gain his emergency power and opens up a can of galactic whoopass. Cue the Imperial March.

applejack · Post by **applejack** » 2005-06-12 12:39am

Palpatine/Sidious would probably sabotage and undermine Republic efforts to fend off the Vong in order to make Chancellor Valorum look like a moron. He would get into office by sympathy vote since Naboo was invaded first in addition to perhaps wheeling and dealing. After bleeding the Jedi against the Vong, he will somehow portray them as traitors (perhaps he reveals how they are collaborating with Vong heretics, should it ever happen) and have the Jedi exterminated. Then he will turn the might of the budding Galactic Empire against the Vong and wipe them out.

At least, that's my rough outline of it. I haven't read the NJO either, though I have read the timeline at theforce.net.

EDIT: I'm not sure what it would do to Anakin's story arc. Does Amidala die on Naboo at the hands of the Vong? Does she make it safely out? How does the slave boy on Tatooine get discovered?

Being a prophecy, I would imagine Anakin's role in the downfall of the Jedi knights would somehow come true, but it might be a lot different than canon events.

EDIT 2:

Stravo wrote: Do the Jedi not being soldiers shtick make them react slowly at first to this threat?

Well, Qui-Gon thought that the sight of battle droid armies ready to deploy warranted immediate notification. One of his priorities, IIRC, was to get notice to the Senate. Something like the Vong would probably be more urgent.

Also, how fast do you think the militarization would happen? It took ten years to grow the clone army. The GR would have to make do with what they have such as the sectorial forces and perhaps even the droid armies of the factions that would have made up the CIS.

EDIT 3: corrected coding

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-06-12 01:11am

Anakin could be picked up by some Jedi if they're on Tatooine fighting/fleeing from the Vong.

Apparently the Vong actually were planning to attack the Republic pre-TPM, but they were discovered on some outlying, "living world" by a powerful Jedi who convinced them to call off the attack by going back to their homeland and teaching them all about the galaxy. And then evidently she later destroyed a bioweapon which could have wiped out the Vong and ended the war. Way to go, asshole.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-06-12 01:36am

Stravo wrote:What does the Republic do?

Do we have any EU sources that talk about the ancient ships used by members of the Old Republic? My experience in games (see Warlords ) suggests that during the TPM era warships of the Old Republic were large, slow and fairly weak compared to modern imperial warships. Then again games are generally ultra-low canon.

I've not read the books, but I'll put my opinion out on the table anyway.
Firstly, ships of the old republic, I feel, are in all ways inferior to those used by the New Republic. There is no Grand Army of the Republic yet, just local defense fleets, likely operating ships that have been around for hundreds of years (since the last war).
On top of having inferior hardware, there's also the problem of mobilizing. The corruption and bureaucracy of the Old Republic would create real problems. Individual members of the Republic might outright refuse to hand over ships for some sort of Republic joint military, preferring to keep their ships at home, where they can defend their own interests.

As far as what Palpatine does, it's hard to say. He's obviously not as powerful as he is by AotC. I think that during TPM he's just another Senator from some podunk little world, who uses "circumstance" to become the Supreme Chancellor. Maybe he'd use this opportunity to come to power, but would that take too long? Maybe. If the ships of this era are as crappy as I think them to be, and the military cohesion is as non-existent as I think it, than the Old Republic might very well lose before they get their act together and mobilize.

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2005-06-12 02:28am

I have no idea what Palps would actually do, but I have an idea which I think would work for him.

First he uses his bureaucratic connections to block chancellor Valorums attempts to act against the threat, pretty much what he did during TPM. When the Vong rape a few worlds, Valorum's bound to face a vote of no confidence and go bye bye.

Meanwhile, Palpatine publicly endorses the Trade Federation and their attempts to resist the Vong with their large but potentially inneffective fleet. They may or may not do some real damage to the Vong, but Palpatine and his corporate friends will 'possibly' be seen as heroes for being prepared and taking action. Add in the sympathy vote for poor Naboo getting curb stomped and we have a new Supreme Chancellor.

Since the Republic isn't ready for full scale war yet, the Jedi (sadly) will have to bear the brunt of the fighting until new forces can be mobilized. If a few seem to die from lightsabre hits under mysterious circumstances, all the better (Maul would have to be doing something)

Meh, it's an idea

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 10:35am

Would the clone army even be created at all? It seems like it would take too long and only be availible after the war is over. The Vong could not possible occupy the galaxy. And 10,000 Jedi might make the Vong change their mind about conqering the galaxy. And after all, their infiltration of the OR would be much less then their infiltration of the NR, and Zonama Sekot might come in to help right away. According to the NJO, Sekot's fighters could be bought on the private market.

JediMaster415 · Post by **JediMaster415** » 2005-06-12 10:56am

I wonder if 10,000 Jedi will be enough to slow the Vong invasion until soldiers, clones and droids can be brought to bear.

Battle droids would be the perfect insult. Intelligent (I use the term loosely) machines who fight like organics.

Clones are another insult. Organics grown by machines. That has to offend Vong sensibilities.

Really, the defense of the galaxy falls to the Jedi and the droids until soldiers can be trained and clones can be grown.

(Why must you people keep giving me story ideas? I have twenty plots running through my head from hanging out here.)

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 01:18pm

Would the clone army even be created at all? It seems like it would take too long and only be availible after the war is over. The Vong could not possible occupy the galaxy. And 10,000 Jedi might make the Vong change their mind about conqering the galaxy.

The Vong seem pretty intent and capable of conquering and holding the galaxy (or at least a significant portion of it) half a decade later, what would change in the TPM time period. And as for saying that the Jedi could take on the entire Vong military, or any military force of a comprable size for that matter by themselves, is Jedi-wanking. Qui-gon even says the Jedi are no soldiers. They can make effective commanders or strike soldiers, but as the casualty levels from the Clone Wars show, where they even had the Clone Army, they could not possibly take on the Vong themselves, especially not with their force null abilities.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 01:32pm

I dunno, given what the Jedi do to the VOng in the NJO with only a handful of halftrained acolytes, i think they could give the Vong a bit of trouble. The VOng leadership/upper class was intent on conquering the galaxy. But I doubt they could have possible held it or even taken the whole thing. They simply wouldn't have the manpower. And Vong society is very fragile. If a few of the Jedi pull a Jaina Solo than the whole VOng social structure would come crashing down like it did in the NJO. The Vong attacked at a few key places to defeat their enemies, the Seperatists attacked everywhere. The Vong use mostly hand to hand weapons (the Jedi's specialty) on the ground, the Seperatists used long range blasters. THe Jedi were probably put into several traps by Palpatine/Sidious to whittle down their numbers. And the Jedi would probably recall more than the mere 200 Jedi they used at Geonosis given the Vong threat. Sidious might even decide to use Maul against the Vong instead of the Jedi in order to preserve the galaxy. He might actually try to help the Jedi win early on, the Sith would be concerned by the Vong too.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 01:37pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:I dunno, given what the Jedi do to the VOng in the NJO with only a handful of halftrained acolytes, i think they could give the Vong a bit of trouble. The VOng leadership/upper class was intent on conquering the galaxy. But I doubt they could have possible held it or even taken the whole thing. They simply wouldn't have the manpower. And Vong society is very fragile. If a few of the Jedi pull a Jaina Solo than the whole VOng social structure would come crashing down like it did in the NJO. The Vong attacked at a few key places to defeat their enemies, the Seperatists attacked everywhere. The Vong use mostly hand to hand weapons (the Jedi's specialty) on the ground, the Seperatists used long range blasters. THe Jedi were probably put into several traps by Palpatine/Sidious to whittle down their numbers. And the Jedi would probably recall more than the mere 200 Jedi they used at Geonosis given the Vong threat. Sidious might even decide to use Maul against the Vong instead of the Jedi in order to preserve the galaxy. He might actually try to help the Jedi win early on, the Sith would be concerned by the Vong too.

This is true, although in the NJO period, the Jedi still had significant military support. Even if the Jedi could win on the ground, the Vong would still have its full naval armada, while the Republic is left with its relatively small and underpowered policing navy (Acclamators werent used before the battle of Geonosis; the Kamionans subcontracted several corporations in nearby systems, as well as secretly the Kuati, to construct warships and material for their new clones.)

However your point about the Sepratists' wider war strategy is a good one. It had slipped my mind.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-06-12 01:44pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Do we have any EU sources that talk about the ancient ships used by members of the Old Republic? My experience in games (see Warlords ) suggests that during the TPM era warships of the Old Republic were large, slow and fairly weak compared to modern imperial warships. Then again games are generally ultra-low canon.

That's beyond ultra-low canon. That's into the range of fanfic. Warlords is not an official product.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 01:49pm

The NR military is so pathetic I am not even sure it would qualify as support. They only appeared decent in Destiny's Way, SbS, Unifying Force, and the defense of Borlieas. Although I don't doubt your right about the Vong control of space. The major corporations that would make up the CIS later on could probably put up a decent fight against the Vong though, maybe even hold them back at a few places. The use of droid armies would infuriate the Vong beyond belief. They would break cover and forget all tactics trying to kill those things in any way possible. Remember in Rebel Dream when the YVH droids attacked the Vong? Here is a excerpt: "...Yuuzhan Vong warriors were popping up all over the field, emerging from the jungle at a dead run, heading towards them, lunging like maddened animals towardsd the droids that insulted them with words and mere presence."

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 01:56pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:The NR military is so pathetic I am not even sure it would qualify as support. They only appeared decent in Destiny's Way, SbS, Unifying Force, and the defense of Borlieas. Although I don't doubt your right about the Vong control of space. The major corporations that would make up the CIS later on could probably put up a decent fight against the Vong though, maybe even hold them back at a few places. The use of droid armies would infuriate the Vong beyond belief. They would break cover and forget all tactics trying to kill those things in any way possible. Remember in Rebel Dream when the YVH droids attacked the Vong? Here is a excerpt: "...Yuuzhan Vong warriors were popping up all over the field, emerging from the jungle at a dead run, heading towards them, lunging like maddened animals towardsd the droids that insulted them with words and mere presence."

True, Vong do have a tendacy to turn into Klingons when droids are around. Still, by the time of TPM, the Droid army numbers amongst the corportaions were still relatively low, they didnt really start a buildup until a few years before AOTC, at Dooku's urging. At that point, most of the TF army was tied up on Naboo, which the Vong might very well Dovin Bassal like they did to Sernpidal.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 02:06pm

I was under the impression that the droid buildup escalated before AotC. I thought all the big corporations already had large droid armies. And just the TF force could probably hold them off at least once. And it wouldn't take long for the corporations to speed up prodution of droids, planets to request clones, and general recruitment in the outlying worlds to begin. Droids can be built on Geonosis in under twenty minutes. They can churn out a lot of weapons really fast. And I thought the TF hadn't invaded at this point.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 02:18pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:I was under the impression that the droid buildup escalated before AotC. I thought all the big corporations already had large droid armies. And just the TF force could probably hold them off at least once. And it wouldn't take long for the corporations to speed up prodution of droids, planets to request clones, and general recruitment in the outlying worlds to begin. Droids can be built on Geonosis in under twenty minutes. They can churn out a lot of weapons really fast. And I thought the TF hadn't invaded at this point.

Hmm, I misread the OP, they havent invade yet. In any event, yes, the corportaions did start their buildup before AOTC, but not before TPM. The percieved "persecution" of the TF by the republic (a spin put on by Dooku for the perspective CIS members) encouraged the others to build up their forces considerably, but not for a while after TPM. They may still have had small forces and production facilities, and they have been able to crank up production to fight the Vong threat, but the major numbers would still be somewhat late coming. Besides, in space, CIS ships, especially TF ones are typically quite inferior to Republic ships. If the Vong could stand up to ISDs and Mon Cal ships, they would cut through the TPM period TF armada like butter.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 02:29pm

Not really, TF ships were decent and had loads of fighters. Thousands of fighters per ship. And given they were effective enought to fight the entire Clone War, I wouldn't right them off completely. TF warships are so huge they could probably take on some smaller Vong craft. And unlike NR ships, they don't run away and don't care if they lose atmosphere. And they would almost certainly be upgraded with more weapons when the need to carry a ground army. THe more I think about it the more I am sure Darth Sidious (not revealing his alternate persona) would work with the Jedi on this one. And the warships for the CIS had been in place long enough that they were all easily identified and were built to subdue "future customers" as the TF says it. And the NR military is pathetic, being able to beat them is not a good qualifier. The most lopsided victory of the NR was on Borleias where they use Imperial tactics and equipment to score their biggest victories.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 02:34pm

And the NR military is pathetic, being able to beat them is not a good qualifier.

I was talking about the quality of ships used, not the direction behind them (besides, the TF implementaion of the Occupation of Naboo was far worse than any tactical decision made by the NR outside of Vector Prime.) A single Acclamator can effectively destroy a pre clone wars-era TF battleship, and ISDs are a great deal more powerful than Acclamators (and Mon Cal ships are comprable to ISDs, if not more powerful.)

However, the seer number of fighters is an advantage, considering how easily Dovin Bassals can be confused by multidirection attacks.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 02:40pm

TF ships are pretty decent, and the Acclamator caught the TF offguard, it took specialized warships to beat the TF stuff later on. Mon Cals are constantly being overestimated. A single IDS2 took on two of them at the same time and survive. Nowhere in the EU do the Mon Cals demonstrate superiority or even equality to ISDs and ISD2s.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 02:44pm

Mon Cals are constantly being overestimated. A single IDS2 took on two of them at the same time and survive. Nowhere in the EU do the Mon Cals demonstrate superiority or even equality to ISDs and ISD2s.

This is not true. Aside from the fact that there are a wide variety of Mon Cal vessels (in the novels, their ships are generally described just as "Cruisers" thus the strengths and weaknesses of each class tend to get mixed.) Besides, in ROTJ, 25 years before the NJO, a fleet the was predominately Mon Cal was able to go toe to toe with a fleet of ISDs and the Executors without needing vastly superior numbers (they may have had a few more, but not too many.)

TF ships are pretty decent, and the Acclamator caught the TF offguard, it took specialized warships to beat the TF stuff later on.

Which instance are you refering too?

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 02:47pm

Name one engagement they won (without a wonder weapon or a plot trick) against the Empire when they didn't massively outnumber the Empire. And that disrgards the miracle fighters in Rogue Squadron: Bacta War. And according to the EU, the EMpire collapsed on its own. And Thrawn nearly toppled the NR with 200 obselete dreadnaughts.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 02:51pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:Name one engagement they won (without a wonder weapon or a plot trick) against the Empire when they didn't massively outnumber the Empire. And that disrgards the miracle fighters in Rogue Squadron: Bacta War. And according to the EU, the EMpire collapsed on its own. And Thrawn nearly toppled the NR with 200 obselete dreadnaughts.

...........................................

Fuck. Point conceeded.
As a side note though, the dreadnaughts only "tipped the balance of power" in Thrawn's favor. Its not like that was all he had.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 02:54pm

The fact that 200 obselete warships tipped the balance of power so massively in favor of the Empire is sad in itself. And he only had a few ISDs and VSDs, most Imp starships were floating around Byss while Palpatine watched Thrawn from afar.

Asdeed · Post by **Asdeed** » 2005-06-12 03:39pm

Concerning droid armies in TPM, during the planning phase when Amidala set out to retake Naboo, Qui'gon points out killing the droids and their support ship will be useless without capturing Newt Gunray. Why? Because the Trade Federation can just drop another army on the planet. Numbers would not be a problem.

And fleet wise, the Vong ships might be more powerful, but in the early stages of the war they counted on stealth to let them build up some supply worlds to increase their numbers. They had trouble engaging NR fleets of a dozen or so ships. Craptacular as they might be, the TF could send hundreds of ships and just swamp the Vong with numbers.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 03:45pm

Swamping them with enormous numbers of droids could only work for a little while. THe TF couldn't defeat the Vong for more than teo or three engagements. They only have a few thousand ships, the Vong have tens of thousands. And I believe that Nute Gunray's capture wouldn't phase the TF when they fight the Vong.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Vong invade during TPM

The Vong invade during TPM

Re: The Vong invade during TPM

Re: The Vong invade during TPM