What would you REMOVE from the EU

MrAnderson · Post by **MrAnderson** » 2005-06-11 08:41am

What to dump?

EVerything by KJA. He is a lousy writer and everything I read from him is just horrible.

I' Jedi and most of the characters created in it. Let Stackpole go masturbate somewhere else.

The Thrawn trilogy. Pretty much for the same reason that that I' Jedi should go. The whacking off to how super cool Thrawn and Mara are/were has made me sick. I am going to hunt down and shoot the next person who goes into the "Thrawn PWNZZZ!!!11!!!1 all" routine. Also dont like Mara or how idiotic he wrote Luke who suddenly acts like some hick farmer straight off Tatooine even though he has spent how many years wandering the galaxy fighting the Empire.

Faqa · Post by **Faqa** » 2005-06-11 08:55am

Thrawn PWNZZZ!!!11!!!1 all!!!!!!!

Sorry...

Dark Empire. Let's start with making ROTJ fucking meaningless(Oops, Vader DIDN'T kill the Emperor. Oh well, who cares about the OT anyway...).

Extra special Fuck You for making The Thrawn Trilogy meaningless as well...

Continue:

Galaxy Gun...

World Devastators...

Yanking Luke across the Galaxy using the Force...

And so on....

Utter shit. I'm in the minority that did NOT like World Devastators....

Expunge the filth!!! Expunge it!!!!

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-06-11 10:30am

All of it. I'd keep certain elements for a new EU (like Thrawn), but the entirety of what exists now has to go.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-06-11 11:02am

I voted Vong, because I stopped reading the Vong books, whereas, despite all it's bad points, I'd probably enjoy Dark Empire, for at least showing lots of different Imperial dagger ships.

That said, it's a bit more complex than that. There are many things I'd keep but re-do. High Admiral Daala, a well written (KJA, out) genius, with a star cruiser and a massive Imperial Force behind her... Someone uniting the Empire and claiming the title of Emperor, possibly Sedriss (an unforgiveable haircut) or Jerec or someone like that.

irishmick79 · Post by **irishmick79** » 2005-06-12 04:51am

Honestly, I'd ditch everything but the Han Solo series and the Thrawn trilogy. Most of the EU is utter crap in my opinion, and nothing more than a mechanism for Lucas to suck money out of fanwhores. How many times can they recycle the same damn plot in novel after novel before people catch on and stop buying the shit?

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 03:19pm

EU books/comics/ideas that should be salted and burned:
1. Crystal Star-made no sense whatsoever
2. Truce at Bakura-stupid plot, pointless result, entenchment was ridiculous
3. Vong series-stupidest thing since Prophets of the Darkside
4. Junior Jedi Knights Series-just plain stupid
5. DE2 and EE-nonsensical
6. Mara Jade-God I hate her
7. All of the X-Wing books- fighterwanking
8. I, Jedi- I just hate it

EU books/comics/ideas that should be redone:
1. Admiral Dalaa
2. Thrawn Trilogy
3. Courtship of Princess Leia
4. Fall of the Galactic Empire in General
5. Jedi Search Trilogy-good idea, twisted into a monstrosity
6.Corellia trilogy-see above
7. Young Jedi Knights series- could have been much better without bringing in the 2nd Imperium or the alien conspiracy
8. Callista romance

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-06-12 03:35pm

I would only remove the really annoying things, like Crystal Star, The New Rebellion and Children of the Jedi. Things like the JAT, BFC, and the Corellian Trilogy had potential but failed due to bad execution and tech-wanking.

One thing that really annoyed me was the Corellian Trilogy, How the fuck can every fleet in the NR all of a sudden be in drydock all at once, did Daala defect or something?

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2005-06-12 04:05pm

That was a tough choice.

While Courtship was one of the more blatant examples of the authors and the officials not even bothering to do any form of research. (Yeah, we'll use rancors cuz thier so cool!!! 1337!!11 (even though the RotJ novel states that Jabba's rancor was a fucking mutant for his liking)) and it also chewed all over the fight between Luke and Vader (so Vader wasn't really trying) I still had to pass.

Thrawn serves it's purpose. It's just minimalist that's all. Though it did remove the FORCE!!! One huge aspect about Star Wars.

The Correllia trilogy removed HYPERSPACE!!! Still wasn't as fucked up as it could be. Kind of interesting in different aspects.

The Vong were just dumb, but I guess we've got a new tangent to go on. Sort of a self restart for the EU.

The Prequels. Here's the chance to get everything right, and so far, most of the outings have failed. meh.

So...

My pick is...

DARK EMPIRE!!!

It totally shit all over the OT, the saga, the struggle, everything that made it great. Sorry, but it fucking sucks. The artwork was beautiful, but the plot was crap. Emperor Wankatine comes back from the dead. Zombie invasion!!! The only props Zahn gets from me is actually not wanting to work his story with thiers.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-12 05:13pm

Thrawn serves it's purpose. It's just minimalist that's all. Though it did remove the FORCE!!! One huge aspect about Star Wars

What?! How? The Force is extemely important in TTT

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2005-06-12 06:40pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:
Thrawn serves it's purpose. It's just minimalist that's all. Though it did remove the FORCE!!! One huge aspect about Star Wars
What?! How? The Force is extemely important in TTT

Tell that to the ysalamari. Or am I just imagining the whole trek through the woods?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-12 09:27pm

Tell that to the ysalamari. Or am I just imagining the whole trek through the woods?

I've never understood the huge objection to the Ysalamari, or to the Vong in that respect. What exactly is it about forcing Jedi to tap into abilities outside of the force (the their wits, or a blaster) or being forced to come up with new strategies that you find so objectionable?

tean-kun · Post by **tean-kun** » 2005-06-12 10:12pm

Read the first NJO novel and it totally turned me off. Vong just totally messes up Star Wars universe.

On the other hand, Thrawn rocks. Mara Jade-- hooha! I also really enjoyed Anderson's Jedi Trilogy

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2005-06-13 03:01am

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Tell that to the ysalamari. Or am I just imagining the whole trek through the woods?
I've never understood the huge objection to the Ysalamari, or to the Vong in that respect. What exactly is it about forcing Jedi to tap into abilities outside of the force (the their wits, or a blaster) or being forced to come up with new strategies that you find so objectionable?

Because the Force is Star Wars. If I wanted to see someone using a blaster and hiding behind a wall the whole time, I'd watch Star Trek. There's no point in having a story arc about Luke fucking Skywalker, if he's not being a Jedi using the Force. If they wanted some long drawn out tripe, they could have stuck Han or Lando down there.

swaaye · Post by **swaaye** » 2005-06-13 01:03pm

I guess I'm a lot less picky about the ideas that come up. I have no problem with the ysalamiri idea. I thought the idea of an animal that hunts with the force (Vornskyrs) and a resulting prey with a natural defensive evolution (Ysalamiri) to be interesting and entertaining. I liked Luke managing without it, and especially having to deal with Mara without having a big advantage.

The Vong were also interesting to me. I thought the themes of biological vs. technological advancement, pain vs. pleasure, etc were somewhat fresh ideas. The development of the Vong wasn't really the best, by some of the authors. The long pages of dialog between Vong would get old at times, but othertimes it was very engaging.

NJO is definitely not so bad that it should be dumped. There are a LOT of good, entertaining books in there. People should really give it a chance. If one of the books has you nauseous, you can always skip it. I promise there are some in there that you will like though. IMO of course.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-06-13 05:45pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Tell that to the ysalamari. Or am I just imagining the whole trek through the woods?
I've never understood the huge objection to the Ysalamari, or to the Vong in that respect. What exactly is it about forcing Jedi to tap into abilities outside of the force (the their wits, or a blaster) or being forced to come up with new strategies that you find so objectionable?

Er, if you need to see people not tapping the Force, why not shift the story to non-Force users? Or, why not have non-Force users come up with creative ways to overcome Jedi abilities, rather than just "ha ha, your powers are useless because of this macguffin"? And, if the Force "surrounds us and binds us", how the hell can it be "blanked out" by some funky little green critter?

It's fucking lazy writing is what it is - it's the author being unable to find ways to deal with the Force, so he just waves it away with his writer's wand and makes the characters ordinary like everyone else. If the author can't handle writing valid challenges for a Jedi to overcome, maybe he shouldn't be writing about a Jedi.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-13 05:59pm

Er, if you need to see people not tapping the Force, why not shift the story to non-Force users? Or, why not have non-Force users come up with creative ways to overcome Jedi abilities, rather than just "ha ha, your powers are useless because of this macguffin"? And, if the Force "surrounds us and binds us", how the hell can it be "blanked out" by some funky little green critter?

It's fucking lazy writing is what it is - it's the author being unable to find ways to deal with the Force, so he just waves it away with his writer's wand and makes the characters ordinary like everyone else. If the author can't handle writing valid challenges for a Jedi to overcome, maybe he shouldn't be writing about a Jedi.

Your an advocate of a Jedi being more super being than human (or coresponding sentient) despite the strong theme of indavidual strength and inginuity throughout Star Wars? I'm sorry, but I still dont see a problem with using force-null things to improve the character develpoment of certain indaviduals (Luke especially) or if need be, even provide new challenges to be overcome (ie the Vong, although I'm more in favor of its usage in the first respect.)
It is a matter of taste I suppose, and it may also be a sign of the ability in an indavidual to enjoy the EU really at all. Those who think of the Ysalamiri as a creative and important concept will tend to like more of the EU as a whole, and those who dont will tend to dislike EU more, because it is just one of the instances where the EU shows an aspect of the SW universe not seen in the movies, and many of the EU detractors seem incensed by any form of significant orginality or inventivense used by EU authors. I do not understand your unwillingness to accept that the universe is larger than the movies, but if that is what you feel, nothing I can say will change your mind, nor should it. I just find it somewhat reprehensible that the "haters" often go out of the way to attack the EU (or at least almost all aspects of it) and deried those who enjoy it as being morons or "digesting filth."

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2005-06-13 06:03pm

Get rid of:
NJO
All KJA books.
The Corellian Trilogy
Dark Empire
The Fetts woulds stay dead as would Palpatine.

Then again most EU should be tossed out, even some of Zahn's works. He gave a decent effort but it left lots to be desired.

I think Leia should have bowed out of Politics to become a Jedi.
Obi Wan Yoda and Anakin as force Ghosts should have play a bigger part, and Joruus C'Boath was a Lame Darkside/Sith-style Villain.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-06-13 06:04pm

Cal Wright wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
Tell that to the ysalamari. Or am I just imagining the whole trek through the woods?
I've never understood the huge objection to the Ysalamari, or to the Vong in that respect. What exactly is it about forcing Jedi to tap into abilities outside of the force (the their wits, or a blaster) or being forced to come up with new strategies that you find so objectionable?
Because the Force is Star Wars. If I wanted to see someone using a blaster and hiding behind a wall the whole time, I'd watch Star Trek. There's no point in having a story arc about Luke fucking Skywalker, if he's not being a Jedi using the Force. If they wanted some long drawn out tripe, they could have stuck Han or Lando down there.

Remember though, Luke took care of a large group of Stormtroopers with a thrown and TK-controlled lightsaber, after he got out of that jungle and away from the ysalamiri's presence. I think Zahn simply wanted to show that even the Jedi have limits, but they can overcome them.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2005-06-13 07:43pm

Pure Sabacc wrote: Your an advocate of a Jedi being more super being than human (or coresponding sentient) despite the strong theme of indavidual strength and inginuity throughout Star Wars?

...

It is a matter of taste I suppose, and it may also be a sign of the ability in an indavidual to enjoy the EU really at all. Those who think of the Ysalamiri as a creative and important concept will tend to like more of the EU as a whole, and those who dont will tend to dislike EU more, because it is just one of the instances where the EU shows an aspect of the SW universe not seen in the movies, and many of the EU detractors seem incensed by any form of significant orginality or inventivense used by EU authors. I do not understand your unwillingness to accept that the universe is larger than the movies, but if that is what you feel, nothing I can say will change your mind, nor should it. I just find it somewhat reprehensible that the "haters" often go out of the way to attack the EU (or at least almost all aspects of it) and deried those who enjoy it as being morons or "digesting filth."

Woah, where the fuck did I say that?

I never said that Jedi should be unstoppable superbeings or that the EU should never introduce anything new, I said I don't like the ysalamiri, and I still think they're a shitty crutch for a writer to be able to use a given character without having to deal with certain abilities he's been shown to have. There are other ways to hinder a Jedi besides something so lazy as taking away the Force.

Seriously, if you need to throw a character into a conflict and can't build a scenario where a Jedi will still be challenged, maybe you shouldn't be writing about that Jedi at that time. Maybe you should write about someone who didn't have Force abilities to begin with. Maybe the Force abilities shouldn't have been wanked out to begin with.

And, if my acceptance of the EU is going to be defined by my acceptance of a shitty macguffin like the ysalamiri (as you seem to imply), then maybe the EU is a pile of shit.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-13 07:57pm

Woah, where the fuck did I say that?

It seems to be the genral attitude of those who dislike the EU to piss on it for "not being like the movies." If I lumped you into that group falsely, I apologize.

I never said that Jedi should be unstoppable superbeings or that the EU should never introduce anything new, I said I don't like the ysalamiri, and I still think they're a shitty crutch for a writer to be able to use a given character without having to deal with certain abilities he's been shown to have. There are other ways to hinder a Jedi besides something so lazy as taking away the Force.

Seriously, if you need to throw a character into a conflict and can't build a scenario where a Jedi will still be challenged, maybe you shouldn't be writing about that Jedi at that time. Maybe you should write about someone who didn't have Force abilities to begin with.

There seems to be soome miscommunication in what I am attempting to say, so I will try to elaborate:
There are only a few instances when the Ysalamari actually come into play in a major part of the story, rather than being a background piece. One of the more significant is the forest trek on Mryst with Luke and Mara. I believe that you may be interpriting this bit as something other than what it is: it is the beginning of Luke's relationship with Mara. The Ysalamari at this point do not exist purely to make Luke weak so he has to fight the beings of the forest dramatically, or so Mara is simply capable of dragging him back to Karrde, rather it exists so that the Mara and Luke can begin to build a relationship a bond of trust. I'll admit it could have been done differntly, but as it is, I see nothing wrong with taking away Luke's abilities to the end of furthering his reactions with Mara.

Maybe the Force abilities shouldn't have been wanked out to begin with.

On this I can agree (although when the Ysalamari are introduced, force powers have not yet been inflated, so it is a moot point.)

And, if my acceptance of the EU is going to be defined by my acceptance of a shitty macguffin like the ysalamiri (as you seem to imply), then maybe the EU is a pile of shit.

Was I speaking in absolutes when I was writng about the correlation to EU hatered? No, words like "some" and "often" suggest that I was just giving examples, none of them binding to you.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-06-13 08:15pm

I don't really see the ysalamiri as objectionable. We know that force powers can be 'spoofed' or 'jammed' so to speak, thanks to Palpatine/Sidious' shroud of the dark side thing. I see the ysalamiri as a bioengineered organism for the purpose of defeating Jedi - IIRC there is NO backstory on the ysalamiri's origins, their purpose or anything like that. Karde I believe was speculating rather than stating anything with cold hard facts.

I personally like the idea that the ysalamiri were engineered by Palpatine... or someone else. Makes more sense than "they evolved to combat force-predators" though obviously, I don't really care all that much.

Seriously, if Palpatine can spoof the collective Jedi's abilities AND radar - and this is a fact not in dispute and supported by the movies-, then what the fuck is wrong with a little slug that has a tiny anti-force zone?

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-06-13 08:27pm

Vong:
Let's give these guys molten rock guns!
Oh no, then they wouldn't pose a threat to any SW ship at all!
Ok, let's give them uber-haxor shield-stripping black holes!
Whoohoo, now these guys are steamrolling through the New Republic!

Hmmn, these guys aren't badass enough.
Oh, let's have them beat up on Jedi to prove that they're badass!
But Jedi are badass! Jedi can't fall to these guys!
Ok, how about if the Vong don't exist in the Force! Then the Jedi can't see the Vong!

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-06-13 11:59pm

I actually like most of what i've seen and heard in the EU. And unlike most, i have no problem with KJA or the Vong stories.

There are some parts of stories and storylines i would utterly erase from Star Wars canon...

First...Han Solo the Househusband. No. Just...just fucking no. No way in hell. Whoever thought that marrying him off was a good idea can kiss the fattest, blackest part of my ass.

Second, all the kids. Jesus Christ, i mean, how fertile are women in the SW galaxy. Every other book someone has popped out a baby. Now theer are TWO Anakin Skywalkers...one is Vader and the other is some kid of Luke's. Or is it Leia? Or, no, maybe he's Lando's son...or Chewie's...fuck i forget. There are so many of these kids i cant fucking keep track.

And speaking of Chewie...what THE FUCK was the writers who killed him off smoking? Those people are nothin' but vile, cheating lying scum of the Earth. You do not...DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...kill of fucking Chewbacca! How dare they!? How dare those rat fucking bastards! I almost had a heart attack when i read that, i truely did. What did they do, give Lucas a shot of acid and then ask him "Hey would it be ok to kill off one of the most beloved characters in sci-fi?" and he mumbled something, "Uhhh...he says yes! It's on boys!"

Forgive me if i'm rambling a little...anyway, besides that, everything else is fine with me.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-14 01:23am

Second, all the kids. Jesus Christ, i mean, how fertile are women in the SW galaxy. Every other book someone has popped out a baby. Now theer are TWO Anakin Skywalkers...one is Vader and the other is some kid of Luke's. Or is it Leia? Or, no, maybe he's Lando's son...or Chewie's...fuck i forget. There are so many of these kids i cant fucking keep track.

Damn you biological urge to procreate!

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-06-14 01:27am

If I had to pick just one...I'd flip a coin. Heads is Vong, tails is Dark Empire.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What would you REMOVE from the EU

What to REMOVE from the Expanded Universe?