Should Hayden Be Unmasked In ROTJ?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-06-15 03:28am

I've never liked Sebastian Shaw as Anakin Skywalker. The egghead look, the accent, everything. With the replacement of Anakin at the end of ROTJ with Hayden Christensen, why not do it during the unmasking?

It would be a terrific opportunity to bridge the two trilogies. The makeup could be upgraded, and Anakin could even say something entirely different to Luke. The way the scenes were filmed, this would be very easy.

So... should Hayden be unmasked in ROTJ? And...should Anakin's lines be added to? If so, what should Anakin say to Luke? I know there's an itch for a dozen people to say something smart-assed or funny, but if you do, at least add a serious comment as well.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-06-15 03:34am

Fuck no.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-15 03:38am

I'm on the fence.

It's perfectly fine as it currently is, but if they did replace it with Hayden, I wouldn't mind if it was done well.

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2005-06-15 03:48am

That would make no sense at all. After all, RotJ Darth Vader was almost 20 years older than Hayden and had undergone horrific injuries. Do you think you look the same as you would if you were aged 20 years and given a nice hot lava dip?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-06-15 04:02am

Lone_Prodigy wrote:That would make no sense at all. After all, RotJ Darth Vader was almost 20 years older than Hayden and had undergone horrific injuries. Do you think you look the same as you would if you were aged 20 years and given a nice hot lava dip?

Use common sense. Hayden would be aged 20 years, of course. Its better than having a 75-80 year old actor play Anakin, who looked far older than Obi-Wan.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-06-15 04:09am

I say...yeah sure. I dont see how it would hurt the film, as Vader's unmasking was hardly an important plot point. It was important to the character and Luke, but the movie can survive completely fine if it is changed, or even edited out and the film would still function and whatnot. It's not exactly a pivital scene, like the "I am your father!" scene, which was vital to the plot. So putting Heyden in there wouldnt do any damage.

If they change the line, i would prefer something simple and concise like, Vader's breathing becomes increasingly labored and he shakes his head and looks sorrowful, "I was...so wrong...sorry...so...sorry." *croaks*.

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2005-06-15 04:18am

Vader was dipping into the dark side of the force, which ages its users prematurely if not done with care. He might have experienced some of the deformity Palapatine did, in the course of his study, and the X-ray pics of Vader being force-lightninged showed this might be so. I'd rather the FX effort be directed into making Han shoot first again; much easier; just re-insert the original scene. Anyway, with all his injuries and stress, Vader should look nothing like Anakin 20-30 years later, and he would certainly have aged faster than Obi-wan, who became a desert hermit. The severe burns alone would have changed the look, so a different actor would be fine.

The ROTJ group ghost picture, on the other hand, might stand to be changed, but I would hate to take something away from the actor standing in there.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-06-15 04:20am

General Brock wrote:The ROTJ group ghost picture, on the other hand, might stand to be changed, but I would hate to take something away from the actor standing in there.

Lucas is waaay ahead of you there. Hayden replaces Shaw in the Ghost scene already.

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2005-06-15 04:26am

D'oh! Well, I am more a classic trilogy loyalist, so I haven't bothered with the revised editions much.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-06-15 11:33am

Before watching RotS my answer would have been; FUCK NO!

Having watched it, I'm more than impressed on how Hayden played Anakin, he convinced me, but I still don't know if he should replace Shaw.

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-06-15 11:40am

They need to fix Hayden's ghost, first. As it is, he just doesn't look right. They can use Hayden all they want, but A) He needs to look older and B) he needs to not look creepy as he does presently.

Once they get that down, then *shrug* sure, throw him in the suit too. A lot of OT purists will hugely bitch and whine (my roommate would curse George Lucas even more than he already does with his "George Lucas ruined my childhood" protestations regarding the SE and the PT), but if they make it believable...*shrug*

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-06-15 11:50am

I wouldn't mind if it was don't we;; but I don't see anything wrong with what they've got.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-06-15 01:08pm

No and frankly I don't even think Hayden Christensen should have appeared as a ghost. After all, in all cases of Jedi Ghosts, they appear as they looked when they died, so he should have looked like Sebastian Shaw.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-06-15 01:15pm

Leave Sebastian Shaw in the suit. Hayden has already done good work in AOTC and ROTS, and he doesn't need to be transplanted into ROTJ for no good reason. The movies have been altered to death enough already, Jesus fuck leave them alone for god's sake.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-06-15 01:21pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:I say...yeah sure. I dont see how it would hurt the film, as Vader's unmasking was hardly an important plot point. It was important to the character and Luke, but the movie can survive completely fine if it is changed, or even edited out and the film would still function and whatnot.

Are you fucking high on crack or some bullshit? If you edit out that entire SCENE you fucking destroy the goddamn movie. ROTJ was about Anakin's redemption - a bit hard to portray that if you cut the only scene Anakin has in the fucking movie.

It's not exactly a pivital scene, like the "I am your father!" scene, which was vital to the plot. So putting Heyden in there wouldnt do any damage.

The scene IS pivotal. Characters > plot. Characters come first, always.

If they change the line, i would prefer something simple and concise like, Vader's breathing becomes increasingly labored and he shakes his head and looks sorrowful, "I was...so wrong...sorry...so...sorry." *croaks*.

The lines are perfect as they are. NOTHING in that scene needs to be changed; certainly not the lines. They are ALREADY simple AND concise. He ALREADY looks sorrowful. His breathing is ALREADY laboured.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-06-15 01:24pm

Crown wrote:Before watching RotS my answer would have been; FUCK NO!

Having watched it, I'm more than impressed on how Hayden played Anakin, he convinced me, but I still don't know if he should replace Shaw.

Yeah, I already knew Hayden was a good actor, all the way back in 2002 when I saw AOTC (yes, I actually liked his acting there - so sue me).

That said, I still don't understand your position. Hayden is very impressive as Anakin during the Prequels, but why does he need to replace Shaw? Shaw's only in it for a few seconds but it's enough to carry the fact he's aged and dying. Hayden plays a young Anakin greatly, but I don't see a reason to put him through heavy makeup, 'age' him for just a few seconds of film time, to portray a character who's different to the one we see in AOTC and ROTS.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-06-15 01:36pm

Stofsk wrote:
18-Till-I-Die wrote:I say...yeah sure. I dont see how it would hurt the film, as Vader's unmasking was hardly an important plot point. It was important to the character and Luke, but the movie can survive completely fine if it is changed, or even edited out and the film would still function and whatnot.
Are you fucking high on crack or some bullshit? If you edit out that entire SCENE you fucking destroy the goddamn movie. ROTJ was about Anakin's redemption - a bit hard to portray that if you cut the only scene Anakin has in the fucking movie.

It's not exactly a pivital scene, like the "I am your father!" scene, which was vital to the plot. So putting Heyden in there wouldnt do any damage.
The scene IS pivotal. Characters > plot. Characters come first, always.

If they change the line, i would prefer something simple and concise like, Vader's breathing becomes increasingly labored and he shakes his head and looks sorrowful, "I was...so wrong...sorry...so...sorry." *croaks*.
The lines are perfect as they are. NOTHING in that scene needs to be changed; certainly not the lines. They are ALREADY simple AND concise. He ALREADY looks sorrowful. His breathing is ALREADY laboured.

Well i dont care if they change the line, Lord Poe asked if you did what would it be and i was just saying something. Leave it just the way it is and it'd be fine with me.

But in all seriousness, he was only in the film for seconds, and they already changed the ghost. it wouldnt matter either way. The PLOT of the film still functions regaurdless of what they do, unless they completely go crazy and put Obi Wan in there or something. And Anakin redeemed himself as well as he could when he took a metric shitload of force lightning to kill the Emperor, the 'unmasking' was always just to placate those, like me, who wanted to know what was under his Vader gear. Changing that one scene will not change the meaning of the film, that was always found in Luke and his defience of evil and ability to fight the rage and darkside within him. Vader being unmasked was far from the point of ROTJ, and if they put Heyden in there instead of Shaw i see no problem.

It doesnt change the CHARACTER, he does the same things and says teh same things and dies just the same. It doesnt change the plot, because it continues unaffected with no alterations whatsoever. And canon is untouched completely, just as it should be. So...no changing the character, no altering canon no affecting the plot...no problem other than aesthetics.

Personally i dont really see why they should, or shouldnt. As is or changed slightly the scene would be basically identical either way and the film would not be changed one iota, so as long as the plot and film are intact i find it not that big an issue. It's Lucas's baby, as much as i'd love to have thought it up, and if he decides to, fine with me, if he doesnt, a-ok. As long as he doesnt pull something cute and put Obi Wan or the Conehead Dude in there and then reveal *gasp* no, that guy was Luke's daddy, or some asinine shit like that, i'll be fine with it.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-06-15 01:42pm

If Ewan McGregor in old age makeup wasn't rotoscoped in for Obi Wan in the OT then why should Hayden be inserted in place of Shaw? Besides GL has stated that Anakin is a different person as Vader and that his ghost reflects the way he is now since his good nature has been in hibernation since his fall....hey, I'm not a fan of the idea just passing it on.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-15 04:23pm

Vader being unmasked was far from the point of ROTJ, and if they put Heyden in there instead of Shaw i see no problem.

Honestly 18, that's just plain stupid IMO. The unmasking culminates the main story of the entire saga, and completes Anakin as a character. Sure, we know he's redeemed when he kills Palpatine, but without the unmasking, the emotional quality of the sequence is shot down a great deal, not to mention the fact that if he had just dies in the suit, then many would consider him to still be Vader, which is not the case. When he killed Sidious, Anakin also destroyed Darth Vader, and the unmasking shows that for a brief moment, the compasionate although flawed and all too human Anakin had returned, saving his son, and ensuring that the light that his alter ego had all but destroyed would continue to exist.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-06-15 08:14pm

I really wouldn't mind. Exactly the same lines as before, though. I don't think they'll do it, however. They already altered Shaw's face by removing the eyebrows and changing the eye-color.

Madurai · Post by **Madurai** » 2005-06-15 08:20pm

Vympel wrote:I really wouldn't mind. Exactly the same lines as before, though. I don't think they'll do it, however. They already altered Shaw's face by removing the eyebrows and changing the eye-color.

Never say never. If Lucas is still around when the Next Big Thing in home video formats comes around, I can see him dipping back for a Special Special Edition.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2005-06-15 08:28pm

WTF?? They used Hayden in the ghost scene in ROTJ?!? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN???

Can someone post a screenie? I'd really like to see it!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2005-06-15 08:41pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:WTF?? They used Hayden in the ghost scene in ROTJ?!? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN???

Can someone post a screenie? I'd really like to see it!

It's on the DVD. It's actually kind of weird looking with Hayden's expression and staring at you.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2005-06-15 08:49pm

neoolong wrote:
Pint0 Xtreme wrote:WTF?? They used Hayden in the ghost scene in ROTJ?!? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN???

Can someone post a screenie? I'd really like to see it!
It's on the DVD. It's actually kind of weird looking with Hayden's expression and staring at you.

I don't have the DVD (obviously or I wouldn't be asking for a screenie). I'm waiting for all six to appear in a single DVD collection.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2005-06-15 08:56pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:No and frankly I don't even think Hayden Christensen should have appeared as a ghost. After all, in all cases of Jedi Ghosts, they appear as they looked when they died, so he should have looked like Sebastian Shaw.

Anakin died when he became Darth Vader.. Well, at least from a Certain Point of View.