What if the technologies didn't transfer over?

[Madurai]

Every matchup I've seen here presupposes that the technologies work exactly as they're originally designed. What if that's not a valid assumption?

If a ST force found itself in a SW setting, suppose the fundamental physics that made the unique items of Treknology work no longer applied. Assume the reverse also.

[Glimmervoid]

This is the stupidist post ever.

If this was the case then starwars ships would just sit there (there hypermatter engines would not work) and do nothing at all

And startrek ships would not be able to move (both impulse and warp work using tecnoblable mass lightning) and there main weapons (phasers) would stop too. As well as blow up because the dilithem crystals used to regulate antimatter matter engines would stop working.

[SPOOFE]

What if that's not a valid assumption?

Then we'd have zero evidence for the capabilities of either side. Hooray.

[DaveJB]

If a ST force found itself in a SW setting, suppose the fundamental physics that made the unique items of Treknology work no longer applied. Assume the reverse also.

If that happened, the people from the other universe would almost certainly die instantly, thus making it irrelevant whether or not the technology worked. Which it probably wouldn't, anyway.

[Madurai]

Okay, nobody likes that. But what if the technology worked differently? There's a story in this, I'm sure of it.

[SirNitram]

Okay, nobody likes that. But what if the technology worked differently? There's a story in this, I'm sure of it.

No, how would there be?

Look. If the technologies work differently, we have nothing.. NOTHING.. To base our projections on. No discussion can take place because we've got no where to start. They could sprout tulips. That's not a discussion, that's stupidity.

[Madurai]

Okay, nobody likes that. But what if the technology worked differently? There's a story in this, I'm sure of it.

No, how would there be?

Look. If the technologies work differently, we have nothing.. NOTHING.. To base our projections on. No discussion can take place because we've got no where to start. They could sprout tulips. That's not a discussion, that's stupidity.

I would submit that the role of a fiction writer is to make those starting places out of whole cloth.

[SirNitram]

I would submit that the role of a fiction writer is to make those starting places out of whole cloth.

I would contend this with the fact I am a fiction writer, and people tend to recignize the stupidity of making things up as you go along as opposed to injecting sense.

[DaveJB]

I would submit that the role of a fiction writer is to make those starting places out of whole cloth.

"Fiction writer"? This part of the forum doesn't deal with fan fiction, it deals with debates using Suspension of Disbelief! In other words, we assume that they are both real and operate by our laws of physics, so no technological screw-ups like you're suggesting would occur.

[SirNitram]

I would submit that the role of a fiction writer is to make those starting places out of whole cloth.

"Fiction writer"? This part of the forum doesn't deal with fan fiction, it deals with debates using Suspension of Disbelief! In other words, we assume that they are both real and operate by our laws of physics, so no technological screw-ups like you're suggesting would occur.

SoD is vital for the fanfic writer who doesn't want to be ridiculed. People know what happens when you pull the trigger on a E-11: It shoots a beam of asswhoop. It flowers came out, they'd ridicule you.

[Madurai]

I would submit that the role of a fiction writer is to make those starting places out of whole cloth.

"Fiction writer"? This part of the forum doesn't deal with fan fiction, it deals with debates using Suspension of Disbelief! In other words, we assume that they are both real and operate by our laws of physics, so no technological screw-ups like you're suggesting would occur.

And "both operating by our laws of physics" is the biggest stumbling point I have with the comparison. Obviously, they don't operate under the same laws of physics. Pitting the two forces against each other means you're already bending one or the other.

[SirNitram]

And "both operating by our laws of physics" is the biggest stumbling point I have with the comparison. Obviously, they don't operate under the same laws of physics. Pitting the two forces against each other means you're already bending one or the other.

You're bullshitting. Show how either is bent when they're both assumed to work.

[DaveJB]

And "both operating by our laws of physics" is the biggest stumbling point I have with the comparison. Obviously, they don't operate under the same laws of physics.

Based upon what?

[Madurai]

There it is again: "they're both assumed to work."

Why are the technologies so different in the first place?

[Firefox]

There it is again: "they're both assumed to work."

Why are the technologies so different in the first place?

In what way are they different? What observation have you made that proves both universes operate on fundamentally different laws of physics? That's your burden of proof.

[SirNitram]

There it is again: "they're both assumed to work."

Why are the technologies so different in the first place?

What are you rambling on about now, instead of answering the posts put to you?

[Madurai]

There it is again: "they're both assumed to work."

Why are the technologies so different in the first place?

In what way are they different? What observation have you made that proves both universes operate on fundamentally different laws of physics? That's your burden of proof.

The technologies developed to exploit those laws turned out so differently. The FTL systems in both settings are essentially the only way that's shown to work--everybody in SW uses hyperdrive, (almost) everybody in ST uses warp drive. Matter transport exists in ST, but not inn SW. And so on. You could make the argument that there's just some fundamental oversight in both groups of scientists, or you could make the argument that one side can't develop the technologies of the other because they can't--because they're impossible.

[Firefox]

The technologies developed to exploit those laws turned out so differently. The FTL systems in both settings are essentially the only way that's shown to work--everybody in SW uses hyperdrive, (almost) everybody in ST uses warp drive.

So? They simply evolved a different way to travel FTL. In addition, they had subspace-based travel 25,000 years pre-ANH. In Trek there are several different FTL systems shown, the fact that many of them have the word "warp?" in it somewhere is irrelevant.

Matter transport exists in ST, but not inn SW.

Again, so what? Why does the absence of a technology mean that it's physically impossible? Ever consider that they don't have transporters because they either don't need or want them?

And so on. You could make the argument that there's just some fundamental oversight in both groups of scientists, or you could make the argument that one side can't develop the technologies of the other because they can't--because they're impossible.

If the latter is the case, you're in for some burden of proof again.

[Madurai]

The technologies developed to exploit those laws turned out so differently. The FTL systems in both settings are essentially the only way that's shown to work--everybody in SW uses hyperdrive, (almost) everybody in ST uses warp drive.

So? They simply evolved a different way to travel FTL. In addition, they had subspace-based travel 25,000 years pre-ANH. In Trek there are several different FTL systems shown, the fact that many of them have the word "warp?" in it somewhere is irrelevant.[q/uote]

Is it? I think you've just taken on the burden of proof for yourself.

Matter transport exists in ST, but not inn SW.

Again, so what? Why does the absence of a technology mean that it's physically impossible? Ever consider that they don't have transporters because they either don't need or want them?

That's hard to accept. As you said, there's been a network of technological civilizations for over twenty millenia. Everybody just missed it? As to not needing or wanting it, that's just silly. It's a massively useful, paradigm-changing tech. Somebody would do it if it was do-able.

And so on. You could make the argument that there's just some fundamental oversight in both groups of scientists, or you could make the argument that one side can't develop the technologies of the other because they can't--because they're impossible.

If the latter is the case, you're in for some burden of proof again.

I think I have enough to make a decent premise.

[Firefox]

Is it? I think you've just taken on the burden of proof for yourself.

Bullshit. They had subspace technology prior to Xim the Despot (Han Solo At Star's End).

That's hard to accept. As you said, there's been a network of technological civilizations for over twenty millenia. Everybody just missed it? As to not needing or wanting it, that's just silly. It's a massively useful, paradigm-changing tech. Somebody would do it if it was do-able.

Appeal to emotion fallacy. Your refusal to accept that they didn't develop transporter technology for certain reasons is not a valid argument.

I think I have enough to make a decent premise.

Not enough to avoid its demolition, apparently.

[Madurai]

Is it? I think you've just taken on the burden of proof for yourself.

Bullshit. They had subspace technology prior to Xim the Despot (Han Solo At Star's End).

You misunderstand--you claimed the use of "warp" in various ST drives wasn't significant--that's what I'm questioning.

Appeal to emotion fallacy. Your refusal to accept that they didn't develop transporter technology for certain reasons is not a valid argument.

Come up with some plausible sounding reasons, then.

[SirNitram]

How about: You're wrong?

Matter transfer tech exists... It's used in private magician shows.

Subspace tech exists in SW: It's 25,000 years old and predates hyperdrive.

Conclusion: SW tech is simply thousands of years more advanced than Trek tech.

[Madurai]

How about: You're wrong?

Matter transfer tech exists... It's used in private magician shows.

Source?

Subspace tech exists in SW: It's 25,000 years old and predates hyperdrive.

Conclusion: SW tech is simply thousands of years more advanced than Trek tech.

Plausible conclusion, if the assumption is true. Where's is subspace mentioned apart from hyperspace?

[SirNitram]

How about: You're wrong?

Matter transfer tech exists... It's used in private magician shows.

Source?

EGWT.

Subspace tech exists in SW: It's 25,000 years old and predates hyperdrive.

Conclusion: SW tech is simply thousands of years more advanced than Trek tech.

Plausible conclusion, if the assumption is true. Where's is subspace mentioned apart from hyperspace?

Most everything referring to Xvim the Despot. Also, the SD's sensors operate through the entirity of subspace according to WEG when scanning for comms intercepts.

[Madurai]

Excuse my infernal n00bness, but EGWT?