Executor Shields, a debate with a guy on Mediablvd.

[Steven Snyder]

I am not a skilled debator.
Linky

I seem to be locked in an endless debate with a guy on Mediablvd.com in a vs (BSG/SW/ST). situation.

His contention, at least his current contention, is that small craft can simply fly under the shields of a vessel and destroy it from within, his example is the Executor being destroyed by an A-wing. He seems to deny that it was the bombardment from the alliance cruisers that first brought down the shields.

I could be wrong, but based on what I know about SW shield technology, you just can't slip under them with a starfighter.

So if anyone wants to give me some advice, or take this guy to task, I would love to see it.

Thanks in advance.

[Glimmervoid]

Show him the Acbar quote of “all ships fire on the super star destroyer”. Some shields can be penetrated by fighters though last block energy shields. I think they are called ray shields.

[Steven Snyder]

I have quoted that at least 3 times, from starwars.com to wikipedia articles...

Perhaps the oddest-looking starfighter in the Rebel Alliance fleet, the B-wing fighter is as powerful as it is ungainly. The ship's structure is almost entirely taken up by its primary airfoil, which houses a cylindrical cockpit on one end, an engine cluster in the center, and a heavy weapons pod at its base. Located just below the engine cluster are a pair of S-foils which can deploy to extend the firing arc of twin laser cannons.

A fighter is considered a ship. So when the database says, Eventually, the Rebel ships were able to penetrate its powerful bridge shields the site is talking about the fighters not the cruisers penetrating the shields. This is supported in the Wikipedia site.

In the wikipedia site the statement is made that the shields were brought down this is in contridiction to the Starwars database. The Starwars database never says that the shield was brought down. The site only says that rebel ships penetrated the Executors shield.

Wikipedia does credit the a-wing squadron with targeting the Executors sensors and its bridge deflector-shields. This support my statement that that it was fighter that penetrated the Executor shield not the rebel cruiser. The shield was still up.

Incidently your script does not mentioned the A-Wings destroying the sensor and bridge deflector. So is the script wrong or is Wikipedia wrong? Or does the movie have things in it that are not in the script you found? If the A-wing did not strike the bridge would the Executor have careened into the Death Star?

Go watch the movie.

Quote fixed you need the "=" in there-Bean

[Mr Bean]

I shoudl acutal responed to the guy instead of just fixing your link tags
Right now then

*Snip B-Wing description, yep thats right

A fighter is considered a ship. So when the database says, Eventually, the Rebel ships were able to penetrate its powerful bridge shields the site is talking about the fighters not the cruisers penetrating the shields.

I see so the "concetrate all fire on the flagship quote is just bullshit and the Republic fleet was just sitting there wanking off, infact if these fighters are so powerful why the fuck bring the other ships to begin with? Why not scrap em all and build a few thousand fighters out of them?

This is supported in the Wikipedia site.

Thats the equivlant of quoting the allknowing yellow stickypad of knoweldge, anybody can write anything they want on it and on that site.(Once registered)

In the wikipedia site the statement is made that the shields were brought down this is in contridiction to the Starwars database. The Starwars database never says that the shield was brought down. The site only says that rebel ships penetrated the Executors shield.

Which is correct the Forward shields were breached due to the entire concetrated fire of the Republic fleet. The typical Captial ship shielding sections are divided in six, Forward, Aft, Venteral(Bottom side) Dorsal(Top side),Port and Starboard(Port is left Starboard is that other direction)
With the forward shields down all foward facing bits of the ship (Like the Bridge Tower) were temporarly or only partialy shielded for a few crucial seconds, SW ships can shift shield power around and one of the bridge crew were in the proccess of doing this this when the A-Wing slammed into the tower)

Wikipedia does credit the a-wing squadron with targeting the Executors sensors and its bridge deflector-shields. This support my statement that that it was fighter that penetrated the Executor shield not the rebel cruiser. The shield was still up.

The domes atop the Bridge are Sensors Domes, the deflects are pretty flush with the hull, they also I belive were destroyed off Camera meaning some of the nearby dorsal shields would have shifted to cover the Bridge... had their been time.

Incidently your script does not mentioned the A-Wings destroying the sensor and bridge deflector. So is the script wrong or is Wikipedia wrong?

Please consolted the allknowing Stickypad of Knownledge

Or does the movie have things in it that are not in the script you found? If the A-wing did not strike the bridge would the Executor have careened into the Death Star?

Most certinaly it would not have, since the pilot was in mid course correction and the engines misfired it sent the ship on a death dive from which it could not recover in time.

But you'd know that if you watched the movie.

[Vympel]

A fighter is considered a ship. So when the database says, Eventually, the Rebel ships were able to penetrate its powerful bridge shields the site is talking about the fighters not the cruisers penetrating the shields. This is supported in the Wikipedia site.

What the fuck is this moron trying to say? Challenge him outright, does he think "concentrate all fire on that Super Star Destroyer" was in reference to two fucking fighters? He's an idiot. The OT:ITW states outright that it was due to concentrated bombardment from the Rebel fleet. He hasn't got a fucking leg to stand on, and there's no contradiction between the SW.com database and anything.

[Quadlok]

In all fairness, ANH does indicate that, if a fighter goes really really slow, it can slip through shields. Of course, if it tried to do that against any normal capital ship, it would be blasted into oblivion. Or was what the rebel fighters passed through not actually a normal shield?

This guy is full of shit in any case, bring up the incident where three Star Destroyers crashed into the Executor as they exited hyperspace and didn't even scratch the paint. It was in one of the old Marvel comics, if I remember correctly.

[The Original Nex]

A fighter is considered a ship. So when the database says, Eventually, the Rebel ships were able to penetrate its powerful bridge shields the site is talking about the fighters not the cruisers penetrating the shields. This is supported in the Wikipedia site.

WTF? Supported by the Wikipedia site?!

Does he net realize that Wiki is basically an open forum for anyone to go in and write whatever they want? Does he fail to grasp that any dumbass can go in there and write whatever the fuck they want to any entry? Yeah, Wiki's a realyl reliable source.

In fact, maybe I'll go fix that Wiki entry right now. . .

He's an idiot, plain and simple.

[Kartr_Kana]

I think that Fighters can fly through ray shields since they only stop energy weapons, but not particle shields. Though why the energy shield would be far enough from the hull to slip a fighter in is beyond me.

[Steven Snyder]

In all fairness, ANH does indicate that, if a fighter goes really really slow, it can slip through shields. Of course, if it tried to do that against any normal capital ship, it would be blasted into oblivion. Or was what the rebel fighters passed through not actually a normal shield?

I do not want to generate any controversy here tonight, I am too fucking tired for it.

But, I always though that it was said...
"We are passing through the magnetic field." to mean that they entered a magnetic field (not the shields) of the Death Star, which wasn' the same thing as their deflector shields.

[NecronLord]

Anakin's fighter flew into the shielded DCS in TPM. The shields were up all the time. Characters on both sides comment that the shields are up the whole time. Fighters can fly through capital ship shields. This is filmatic canon and therefore indisputeable.

However it is also evident that some shields are unable to be penetrated in the same manner. Observe the Invisible Hand.

Simply put, both sides are equally justified.

[Trooper TK12746]

I thought the shields were lowered for the droid fighters to leave and Anakin happened to get in at the same time the droid fighters were leaving.

[Noble Ire]

Anakin's fighter flew into the shielded DCS in TPM. The shields were up all the time. Characters on both sides comment that the shields are up the whole time. Fighters can fly through capital ship shields. This is filmatic canon and therefore indisputeable.

Wait, didnt Anakin fly through into the bay just as it was unloading a squad of fighters, and thus its bay shields were down?

[NecronLord]

Wait, didnt Anakin fly through into the bay just as it was unloading a squad of fighters, and thus its bay shields were down?

Why the fuck would they do that? Fighters flying out of shielded vessels is no problem. Shields are one-way remember?

EDIT: It's just like firing photon torpedos out of a ship with the shield up. Not-a-problem. The argument would hold water if the droid fighters were being recalled, but they weren't.

[Noble Ire]

Wait, didnt Anakin fly through into the bay just as it was unloading a squad of fighters, and thus its bay shields were down?

Why the fuck would they do that? Fighters flying out of shielded vessels is no problem. Shields are one-way remember?

They can fly in and out through atmospheric (or magnetic) shields. I was under the impression that hangar shielding is multilayered, semi-permiable shields to allow fighter ingress and regress but keep in air, and more solid ones to block missles and the like that must be lowered for departure.

[NecronLord]

Star Wars shields are one way. You shoot something out, it goes out. You fling a fighter out of a ship, it goes out without problems. Getting it back in might be a problem. Or it might not.

For that matter, a 'heat dissapating layer' on the spherical shell of a buzz droid allows it to penetrate target vessel's shields. Star Wars shields are not impenetrable. It is certainly not inconceivable that fighters could fly through them.

[Noble Ire]

Star Wars shields are one way. You shoot something out, it goes out. You fling a fighter out of a ship, it goes out without problems. Getting it back in might be a problem. Or it might not.

For that matter, a 'heat dissapating layer' on the spherical shell of a buzz droid allows it to penetrate target vessel's shields. Star Wars shields are not impenetrable. It is certainly not inconceivable that fighters could fly through them.

Hmm, your probably right, although using this tactic on a starship's surface would be fairly useless, considering the fact that SW shields are generally skin-tight.

[NecronLord]

Hmm, your probably right, although using this tactic on a starship's surface would be fairly useless, considering the fact that SW shields are generally skin-tight.

Yes. However, buzz droids at least are an effective weapon because of their ability to penetrate shields.

[The Original Nex]

Anakin's fighter flew into the shielded DCS in TPM. The shields were up all the time. Characters on both sides comment that the shields are up the whole time. Fighters can fly through capital ship shields. This is filmatic canon and therefore indisputeable.

However it is also evident that some shields are unable to be penetrated in the same manner. Observe the Invisible Hand.

Simply put, both sides are equally justified.

Actually, IIRC< the DCS has it's Docking Bay Partical Shields lowered to let Droid Fighters out (you can see them exiting on the DVD), so Anakin may have flown through the Atmosphere Containment Shield, but not the Partical Shield.

[The Original Nex]

Ahh, I see Nec already addressed this. . .my bad, ignore my post.

[Techno_Union]

A question Necron: is it actually said somewhere that SW shields (ray or particle) are one way?

I know that in the AOTC:ICS, the Core Ship pages had a shield over the pit that was one way to keep harmful things going in and staying in. Any ways, the EGTVV said something along the lines of particle shields had to be lowered to fire torpedoes, missiles, fighters, or shuttles -- now I know that most people don't particularly follow the Guides and take everything from it (I don't), but this isn't the only place it's mentioned.

Just curious if it's been addessed somewhere, or if it's just been extrapolated from the movies.

[NecronLord]

A question Necron: is it actually said somewhere that SW shields (ray or particle) are one way?

Ray weapons go through them. Proton torpedos go through them. Fuck, look at TPM. Droidekas and Naboo fighters firing through their visible shields.

Just curious if it's been addessed somewhere, or if it's just been extrapolated from the movies.

The latter. Which is far better than any form of book anyway.

[Batman]

A question Necron: is it actually said somewhere that SW shields (ray or particle) are one way?

Ray weapons go through them. Proton torpedos go through them. Fuck, look at TPM. Droidekas and Naboo fighters firing through their visible shields.

Which means ray shields are one way. Not that particle shields are.
As for protorps, maybe they open windows in the shield to let them out (we know for a fact that they did it with the Coruscant planetary shield).
HTTE quite clearly states Chimaera has to drop ventral shields to get her TIEs out.

[Ender]

Ray shields are one way. Particle shields are locally dropped for a split second to allow torpedos and such through. Ref: OEGWT

Particle shields block in and out. Observe the result of fighters hitting the death star 2 shield. Destroyed. Look at the probe droids shield - snow could not penetrate. The DCS was perparing to launch reinforcements for the ground troops - we see Anakin fly past the landing ship. They dropped the bay door shieds for this. Owing to the fact they are not totally stupid, they were also closing the blast doors behind it. Anakin just slipped through.

[Batman]

Thanks, Ender.

[atg]

Hmmm.... Time for a rant

Perhaps the oddest-looking starfighter in the Rebel Alliance fleet, the B-wing fighter is as powerful as it is ungainly. The ship's structure is almost entirely taken up by its primary airfoil, which houses a cylindrical cockpit on one end, an engine cluster in the center, and a heavy weapons pod at its base. Located just below the engine cluster are a pair of S-foils which can deploy to extend the firing arc of twin laser cannons.

A fighter is considered a ship. So when the database says, Eventually, the Rebel ships were able to penetrate its powerful bridge shields the site is talking about the fighters not the cruisers penetrating the shields. This is supported in the Wikipedia site.

1.
Looking at his post he keeps highlighting "ships" in reference to fighters.

The ancient trieme such as used by the romans/ancient greeks/ carthaginians is classified as a 'ship'. The greek navy currently has a fully working and commisioned one in service. Does that mean that it's in the same class in terms of firepower/capability as the destroyers that the greek navy operates as well?

Or submarines are technically classed as "boats", so does that mean they are in the same league as a Yacht, which is also classified as a 'boat'?

Just because the site says rebel ships took down the shields doesnt mean that the fighters could handle it.

2.
He mentions that that when the site says that 'ships' took the shield down that it only refers to fighter. How could he determine that if it just says 'ships'?

3.
I know that games are waaaayyyy down on the canon list, but i believe in rogue squadron 3 on the gamecube there is a mission where you have to first escort Home One so it can bombard the Executor, then do the a-wing-flies-into-the-bridge routine (or to be boring just fire torps at it). I think before you can attack the bridge that ackbar says something like "the cruisers have brought the shields down. Now the fighters can attack"