Fundamentalism is dead (RAR!)

[Zero]

What if absolute irrefutable proof was discovered that there in fact was no God, and the religious crowd actually accepted it? Religion is no longer in the world. At first glance to the crowd here, this may seem like a great opportunity, but we must remember, many of these people would now lack moral guidance, and not understand why they should be good people in any sense of the word. What would be the consequence of such a thing? What would you do, if anything, to help these people who've lost their crutch deal with the world? Do you think this will be an overly good or bad thing?

[Haruko]

Damnit. Having read the title of your topic, I thought that the impossible just happened.

[Zero]

Sorry to disappoint..

[Davis 51]

One doesn't need religion to be a moral person. Morality isn't exclusive to religion. Granted, there will still be bad people and good people.
America would continue on like nothing happened, just that there wouldn't be talk on Abortion or Gay Rights anymore. People would be better off, and all forms of censorship would dissappear.

The middle east, however, is a different story.
Israel would be forced to accept all Palestinians as full blown citizens. As for the rest of the middle east, some, but not all, of the insurgents will give up. The rest will continue on how Democracy is evil, blah blah blah. Osama will have a much tougher time recruting terrorists. So the war on terror would become a little easier. Womens rights in the Middle east would shoot up dramatically, because the religious-right won't have any justification for it.

Man, I wish that would come true.

[Civil War Man]

Since much of their morality is based off of authority, I suppose a stopgap measure would be to replace the fundie God with a human agent, so instead of "Do it because God says so" you get "Do it because The Law says so" (doubt that would really work, though). As for the children, try to wean them off the authoritarian morality and into humanist reasons for morality, so the previously mentioned morality dies with the older generation.

[Zero]

Davis, I do know that one doesn't need religion to be a moral person. However, many people derive much of their sense of self-satisfaction, self-worth, and their morality from their religion. If you take away this, they won't necessarily try and find some other means to replace it. Since many of the people in the US do make many decisions based around religion, and their moral systems are derived from it, taking away their religion may actually take away their morals. There are immoral people of all kinds, but religion has long been the leash that keeps much of society docile. Do you honestly believe that their concept of morality would not be affected by a loss of their religion? If so, then why do you believe that they'll shift stances on homosexual marriage and abortion? Hell, I'm an atheist, and I'm not very keen on abortion either (I don't want it banned, but I certainly wouldn't ever encourage it...).

[Justforfun000]

Davis, I do know that one doesn't need religion to be a moral person. However, many people derive much of their sense of self-satisfaction, self-worth, and their morality from their religion. If you take away this, they won't necessarily try and find some other means to replace it. Since many of the people in the US do make many decisions based around religion, and their moral systems are derived from it, taking away their religion may actually take away their morals. There are immoral people of all kinds, but religion has long been the leash that keeps much of society docile. Do you honestly believe that their concept of morality would not be affected by a loss of their religion? If so, then why do you believe that they'll shift stances on homosexual marriage and abortion? Hell, I'm an atheist, and I'm not very keen on abortion either (I don't want it banned, but I certainly wouldn't ever encourage it...).

Appeal to consequences fallacy. Even IF this was a serious problem, and I really think that only a portion would be affected that strongly, it would MORE then counterbalance the attitudes and evil actions perpetrated by people BELIEVING in religion. It's FAR worse.

[Zero]

The hypothetical situation is all about potential consequences. How is it a fallacy to bring them up? I know people who've come here from the deep south, and been converted by me. For a while, they hit a depression and a lot of anger, before they can figure themselves out again. On a larger scale, I'm not sure what the ramifications would be, but ignoring them is simply foolish. Are you actually certain that it's far worse?

[Darth Wong]

A lot of people would have short-term emotional problems. Widespread heinous behaviour would be curbed by laws, the same way it is now (the morality-sustaining effects of religion are highly overrated; it gives people a sense of righteousness when they lecture others, but it has never really been demonstrated to force people to behave morally).

Long-term, there would be one fewer reason for conflict in the world, which could only be a good thing. And American politics might actually be comprehensible to sane people again.

[Zero]

Would the popularity of the republican party go down? What would the situation be in the middle east? Without religiousity to counter science there, would they see more advancements, or would there possibly be a much greater moral decline there, without any significant secular authorities around?

[Darth Wong]

Would the popularity of the republican party go down?

Not necessarily, since all of the Republicans would lose their religiosity in this scenario as well. George W. Bush would be standing up there saying that God has no place in government. It would be ... different.

What would the situation be in the middle east? Without religiousity to counter science there, would they see more advancements, or would there possibly be a much greater moral decline there, without any significant secular authorities around?

There are plenty of secular authorities around the Middle East. Most of those countries are run by ruthless dictatorships. Those dictatorships would remain even if the mullahs were gone.

[Haruko]

Would the popularity of the republican party go down?

I think that it'd remain a strong party for the only opposition it has to contend with. The Republican party still has many moderate members just as it had in the earlier years, but now we're seeing a lot of Reconstructionist Christians filling in the ranks, and we've already seen "morality" introduced into its platform.

[Superman]

Im not convinced that the religious crowd makes up the majoriity of the republican party. Theyre a chunk of it, but I dont think theyre a majority.

[General Zod]

Im not convinced that the religious crowd makes up the majoriity of the republican party. Theyre a chunk of it, but I dont think theyre a majority.

If you took away the fundamentalism, what exactly -would- the republicans and ultra conservatives have to rally around for causes, issues, etc.?

[Morilore]

Im not convinced that the religious crowd makes up the majoriity of the republican party. Theyre a chunk of it, but I dont think theyre a majority.

If you took away the fundamentalism, what exactly -would- the republicans and ultra conservatives have to rally around for causes, issues, etc.?

At a guess, "AMERICA UBER ALLES!" Jingoism fits in nicely for religion.

[DPDarkPrimus]

I wonder how many people who insist god is required for morality will start doing whatever the hell they want...

[Davis 51]

Davis, I do know that one doesn't need religion to be a moral person. However, many people derive much of their sense of self-satisfaction, self-worth, and their morality from their religion. If you take away this, they won't necessarily try and find some other means to replace it. Since many of the people in the US do make many decisions based around religion, and their moral systems are derived from it, taking away their religion may actually take away their morals. There are immoral people of all kinds, but religion has long been the leash that keeps much of society docile. Do you honestly believe that their concept of morality would not be affected by a loss of their religion?

The majority of religious people would be shocked, but only temporarily. See, there are three types of religious people: Non-practicing, Practicing, and Extremist. The Extremist would be affected the most, and would have a tough time recovering. Some would probably go crazy. The non-practicing would be slightly surprised. The Practicing would probably get over it in a month or two. They would probably benefit from the lack of religion. It would make them think "Gee, there is no heaven, and I have a limited time here on earth. Perhaps I should start a charitable organization or something....to make my life worthwhile." Those who were heavily involved with charity will stick with it, as they now have even more motivation to do so. It is probably wrong to assume that all religious people would behave the same way.

If so, then why do you believe that they'll shift stances on homosexual marriage and abortion? Hell, I'm an atheist, and I'm not very keen on abortion either (I don't want it banned, but I certainly wouldn't ever encourage it...).

The only reason some religious fanatics are against gay marriage and abortion is because they believe them to be sin, because they read it in the Bible. Most, not all, would probably be more accepting of other peoples viewpoints.

I wonder how many people who insist god is required for morality will start doing whatever the hell they want...

If, indeed, they do lose all sense of morality, and start doing whatever the hell they want, they will quickly realize that there are laws, and citizens have to abide by them. If they don't like it, they can leave this country. OOooohhh, the Irony.

[Surlethe]

What if absolute irrefutable proof was discovered that there in fact was no God, and the religious crowd actually accepted it? Religion is no longer in the world. At first glance to the crowd here, this may seem like a great opportunity, but we must remember, many of these people would now lack moral guidance, and not understand why they should be good people in any sense of the word. What would be the consequence of such a thing? What would you do, if anything, to help these people who've lost their crutch deal with the world? Do you think this will be an overly good or bad thing?

The opiate of the masses is gone; many people would be set adrift morally. The extremists wouldn't recover; the fabric of the U.S. South would fall apart, for example; the social fabric of the Middle East would also fall apart. The rule of law would take over where religion left off.

However, at least in the short term, I'm not convinced the formerly religious people would suddenly become social liberals; out of inertia or stubbornness, they would hold onto the not-specifically-religious views (i.e. abortion, gay marriage) which they had held before their deconversion, until explicitly remonstrated.

Im not convinced that the religious crowd makes up the majoriity of the republican party. Theyre a chunk of it, but I dont think theyre a majority.

I think they're a majority of the Republican party. IIRC, 30% of voters are evangelical protestants; 50% are Republican. Evangelical protestants are generally Republican, so that means a good 60% of the Republican party is the more extreme religious sort.

That said, even if I recall incorrectly, the religious lobby are certainly the most vocal, which in of itself represents disproportionate political power.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

What if absolute irrefutable proof was discovered that there in fact was no God, and the religious crowd actually accepted it? Religion is no longer in the world. At first glance to the crowd here, this may seem like a great opportunity, but we must remember, many of these people would now lack moral guidance, and not understand why they should be good people in any sense of the word. What would be the consequence of such a thing? What would you do, if anything, to help these people who've lost their crutch deal with the world? Do you think this will be an overly good or bad thing?

Now by "accepted it" are you saying that the proof is so undeniable that they have little choice but to accept it? Or are you saying that they're accepting it by Act of Plot/Q/Whatever? The answer to this question is rather essential to answering the scenario.

If it's the former, it would not surprise me if the fundies just said "Screw it, we're worshipping the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, even if he's not God."

[Zero]

What if absolute irrefutable proof was discovered that there in fact was no God, and the religious crowd actually accepted it? Religion is no longer in the world. At first glance to the crowd here, this may seem like a great opportunity, but we must remember, many of these people would now lack moral guidance, and not understand why they should be good people in any sense of the word. What would be the consequence of such a thing? What would you do, if anything, to help these people who've lost their crutch deal with the world? Do you think this will be an overly good or bad thing?

Now by "accepted it" are you saying that the proof is so undeniable that they have little choice but to accept it? Or are you saying that they're accepting it by Act of Plot/Q/Whatever? The answer to this question is rather essential to answering the scenario.

If it's the former, it would not surprise me if the fundies just said "Screw it, we're worshipping the Bible and the teachings of Jesus, even if he's not God."

I'm saying that they accept it as true, completley and totally. They actually believe it, and give up religion.