SW + ST?

[Hawkwings]

What would happen if the Empire got all of the ST tech, as of the end of DS9? What would they use it for? This is mainly regarding Transporters and Replicators, but if there's any other ST tech you want to add in, go right ahead.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Um... transport stuff and... replicate stuff... What kind of respone are you looking for here?

[SirNitram]

I don't think much would change. In SW, the concept of soul and cloning is still very much alive in the modern sense; the Transporter would be seen as a dangerous abomination for use on living subjects(Handy for moving heavy stuff, though). Most of the other stuff is duplicatable with SW tech.

[Drunk Monkey]

Use transporters as a torture device on those damn rebels.

[jegs2]

Believe SW already has duplicators, and as early as Episode IV, we see Luke joking about being "teleported off this rock."

[Noble Ire]

Use transporters as a torture device on those damn rebels.

What?

By the way, Replicators exist in the SW universe, they're just used for industrial applications rather than culinary ones.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Use transporters as a torture device on those damn rebels.

What?

Transporters kind of...vaporize you and then reassemble you somewhere else. Basically everytime you use one, you die and are used as raw materials for a cloning process, your duplicate then continues on until they are destroyed in the transporter and another is made. One can realsitically argue that this is nothing more than a complicated process of death and cloning. Technically the clone has all of your memorized and your mind up until the moment of transport, but that can, IIRC, be edited and even parts of a person can be edited in transport.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Wasnt there an episode where a clone of Riker was created accidentally through the Transporter, and had to be killed or exiled because two Rikers couldnt exist, or something?

[Noble Ire]

Wasnt there an episode where a clone of Riker was created accidentally through the Transporter, and had to be killed or exiled because two Rikers couldnt exist, or something?

Yup. He went off on some deep space survey and eventually went rouge and joined the Maquis I believe.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Wasnt there an episode where a clone of Riker was created accidentally through the Transporter, and had to be killed or exiled because two Rikers couldnt exist, or something?

Yup. He went off on some deep space survey and eventually went rouge and joined the Maquis I believe.

There have been transporter accidents of just about every major ST character, some good (mirror universe Kirk) and some (Tuvix).

[Solauren]

off course, with transporters, the major question is do they actually kill your soul?

Sure, we can argue the technial aspects of effectively killing your body, but really, you'd have to a be a Jedi level telepath to know for sure.

That being said, imagine if a Jedi, Sith, or other strong force user said 'nope, there soul is intact, and it doesn't affect one's connection with the Force' and it was confirmed by others that were considered reliable (i.e the Jedi Council in the Prequels.)

Imagine the results of combining Dominion multi-lightyear transporters and the Holonet

[Darth Servo]

TPM indicates that the Old Republic had some kind of transporter. Qui-gonn Jinn in Mos Espa sends young Anakin's blood sample to Obi-wan back on Amidala's starship. How did it get there?

[SirNitram]

off course, with transporters, the major question is do they actually kill your soul?

How, precisely, would you check? And would anyone in the Republic.. Where souls have perceivable power(See: Jedi Knights) see it as anything but an abomination, given their known prejudice against cloning?

[Manus Celer Dei]

TPM indicates that the Old Republic had some kind of transporter. Qui-gonn Jinn in Mos Espa sends young Anakin's blood sample to Obi-wan back on Amidala's starship. How did it get there?

I thought he just transmitted the information about the blood sample to Obi-wan.

[Noble Ire]

TPM indicates that the Old Republic had some kind of transporter. Qui-gonn Jinn in Mos Espa sends young Anakin's blood sample to Obi-wan back on Amidala's starship. How did it get there?

I thought he just transmitted the information about the blood sample to Obi-wan.

He does ask him to test the blood physically, although it is possible that his comm link took a scan of the blood's makeup and transmitted that instead.

[Kamakazie Sith]

off course, with transporters, the major question is do they actually kill your soul?

How, precisely, would you check? And would anyone in the Republic.. Where souls have perceivable power(See: Jedi Knights) see it as anything but an abomination, given their known prejudice against cloning?

It isn't cloning though. Barclay clearing demonstrated that he was aware throughout the entire transporter sequence.

Yup. He went off on some deep space survey and eventually went rouge and joined the Maquis I believe

He was also captured by the Obsidian Order. Most likely executed. Now, if video games (Dominion Wars) had any canon status he would have been rescued.

[SirNitram]

off course, with transporters, the major question is do they actually kill your soul?

How, precisely, would you check? And would anyone in the Republic.. Where souls have perceivable power(See: Jedi Knights) see it as anything but an abomination, given their known prejudice against cloning?

It isn't cloning though. Barclay clearing demonstrated that he was aware throughout the entire transporter sequence.

All Barclay demonstrated was he was aware at some point.. There's nothing that shows there was never discontinuity. Fuck, the entire point of Relics is that there's discontinuity. Someone stored in the transporter buffer didn't know enough time had passed for Kirk to have died.

To throw onto this, Rascals make it clear that they 'reconstruct' folks when data is dropped. And then there's Second Chances.

[Kamakazie Sith]

All Barclay demonstrated was he was aware at some point.. There's nothing that shows there was never discontinuity. Fuck, the entire point of Relics is that there's discontinuity. Someone stored in the transporter buffer didn't know enough time had passed for Kirk to have died.

I thought there was a scene where you watched the transporter process through his eyes. You saw the transporter room, then you watched it fade away and become the beam down site. However, it's been a LONG time since I saw that episode.

To throw onto this, Rascals make it clear that they 'reconstruct' folks when data is dropped. And then there's Second Chances.

The impression I get is they aren't actually killed. They're taken apart and put back together. Somehow they stay alive throughout the entire process.

[SirNitram]

All Barclay demonstrated was he was aware at some point.. There's nothing that shows there was never discontinuity. Fuck, the entire point of Relics is that there's discontinuity. Someone stored in the transporter buffer didn't know enough time had passed for Kirk to have died.

I thought there was a scene where you watched the transporter process through his eyes. You saw the transporter room, then you watched it fade away and become the beam down site. However, it's been a LONG time since I saw that episode.

Uh, you are aware that if there was any point where there was discontinuity, you would, rather by definition, not see it through his eyes?

To throw onto this, Rascals make it clear that they 'reconstruct' folks when data is dropped. And then there's Second Chances.

The impression I get is they aren't actually killed. They're taken apart and put back together. Somehow they stay alive throughout the entire process.

This impression is butchered by the fact transporters are stated to work on similar tech with replicators(Data's Day), Second Chances, Rascals, and so on.

I suppose one could flap a great deal about how the Transporter is apparently the Sorcerer's Wand incarnate, capable of seizing the soul and moving it around(I think Picard's 'energy' floats around in one episode and Troi senses him), but that doesn't mean destroying the body to the point where it's just energy doesn't kill folks in the eyes of any normal person.

[TimothyC]

All Barclay demonstrated was he was aware at some point.. There's nothing that shows there was never discontinuity. Fuck, the entire point of Relics is that there's discontinuity. Someone stored in the transporter buffer didn't know enough time had passed for Kirk to have died.

All it shows is that he's a bit confused. he watched Kirk "Die" (or atleast disapear) durring the Ent-B Launch in Generations.

[applejack]

All Barclay demonstrated was he was aware at some point.. There's nothing that shows there was never discontinuity. Fuck, the entire point of Relics is that there's discontinuity. Someone stored in the transporter buffer didn't know enough time had passed for Kirk to have died.

All it shows is that he's a bit confused. he watched Kirk "Die" (or atleast disapear) durring the Ent-B Launch in Generations.

Well, what he's trying to say is that if there were no discontinuity in consciousness when you undergo transport, Scotty would have gone bonkers after being awake in a transporter buffer for 75 years. The fact that he didn't recall any sense of time passing (i.e. Kirk dying, though this was before Generations came out) means Scotty's consciousness was interrupted at some point during transport.

Basically, "interruption of consciousness" means "death" in this scenario, I think.

[18-Till-I-Die]

That brings up a point. He couldnt have been in there, conscious, for all that time as he'd have gone insane. The fact he wasnt batshit crazy probably means it was justa duplicate of the original body from the moment of transport.

Which brings up another point...doesnt this mean that, by our standards, all the crewmembers of ST died years ago in the transporter and these are just the clones of their clones of their clones, etc, etc?

[applejack]

That brings up a point. He couldnt have been in there, conscious, for all that time as he'd have gone insane. The fact he wasnt batshit crazy probably means it was justa duplicate of the original body from the moment of transport.

Which brings up another point...doesnt this mean that, by our standards, all the crewmembers of ST died years ago in the transporter and these are just the clones of their clones of their clones, etc, etc?

That's the gist of it if you accept the idea that you die when your body is dematerialized.

[applejack]

BTW, I recall hearing about some form of teleportation rings in the Star Wars universe. I think it came from the Essential Guide to Tech. Would somebody be able to find the entry? I'm wondering how it works and how it compares to ST transporters.

[Solauren]

off course, with transporters, the major question is do they actually kill your soul?

How, precisely, would you check? And would anyone in the Republic.. Where souls have perceivable power(See: Jedi Knights) see it as anything but an abomination, given their known prejudice against cloning?

What proof do we have of a prejudice against cloning?

The Jedi Council has no problem being the leaders of a clone army, and the EU indicates there were Jedi involved with cloning experiments (i.e C'baoth)

Sure, they don't use clone replacements, but there could be other reasons besides a cultural distaste for them.
(i.e Droid arms last longer)

However, since discussing that gets into a discussion on Star Wars medical technology, and were are arguing transporters...

The obvious way to test this would be to have someone used to going through the transporter and think nothing of it, go through with a Jedi Knight or other force sensitive nearby

For example, if it was the Empire testing out this interesting new captured technology, I'm sure the Emperor would have Lord Vader, an Inquisitor, or some high-powered Force user near it during testing to see if it was safe with the Force before the Emperor used it.

I mean, come on, you have to admit, if the transporter didn't effectively killed the soul, just say moved it between copies, Palpatine would have no problem using it. Especially when he learned about it's ability to rebuild your bodies young.