Obi-Wan & Yoda vs. Darth Sidious

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2005-06-17 05:21pm

Why did Yoda and Obi-Wan split up and attempt to take out both Sith Lords? It seems like Darth Sidious, the mastermind behind the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire, would be the much more prominent threat to the galaxy than Darth Vader.

I would think that if they managed to kill Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, who has no Sith training or even access to the Sith organization, would be incapable of maintaining the Empire. Even if Vader did somehow take over the Sith assets, he is severely lacking in the manipulation ability of Sidious. I would think that, at best, he would dominate parts of the galaxy with the military, which would much more unstable than Sidious's Empire.

Was it, in part, because Obi-Wan would be more a hindrance to Yoda than a help?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-06-17 05:30pm

The latter. I imagine that Sidious would quickly have killed Obi-Wan while Yoda was recovering or avoiding a particularly mean attack.

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2005-06-17 05:53pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The latter. I imagine that Sidious would quickly have killed Obi-Wan while Yoda was recovering or avoiding a particularly mean attack.

That, or Yoda gets killed trying to babysit Obi-Wan.

In any case, they didn't know where Darth Vader was at first, and finding him was also important. It could also be Jedi arrogance; they both thought they could take their respective targets alone, and it was important to try and strike a decapitating blow to the New Order before it gained any more strength.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-17 06:41pm

The novel says that even paired up they had no chance against Sidious. I think the basic idea was that by fighting them both at the same time, it meant 1) If either one failed, it kept the other Sith occupied so the survivor wouldn't have to face both at the same time 2) If one was successful, the impact in the Force would distract the other Sith to give the jedi an advantage

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-06-17 07:26pm

Obi would have been paste; At least going up against Vader gave him a chance. In fact, the bastard won but couldn't be bothered to force-push Ani the rest of the way into the lava. Lazy git.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-06-17 07:44pm

Obi-won didn't have achance, now if Yoda teamed up with MACE? now THEN he'd kick Palpatines ass!

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2005-06-17 10:31pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Obi-won didn't have achance, now if Yoda teamed up with MACE? now THEN he'd kick Palpatines ass!

Which raises the question in my mind was it a good idea for Yoda to personally take command of the defense of Kashyyk?

Since Yoda strikes me as the de facto leader of the Jedi Council I thought it was pretty strange for him to go out into the field like that. Wouldn't it have been more responsible of him to delegate the assignment to another Jedi Master?

Yoda did say in the movie that it was because he had good relations with the Wookies, but one would think that with their homeworld on the line the Wookies wouldn't be terribly particular about who the Republic sent, as long as the GAR showed up to help out. Especially when the Jedi Council was suspicious of Palpatine.

And could have Mace and Yoda, combined, taken out Darth Sidious?

R.O.A · Post by **R.O.A** » 2005-06-17 11:42pm

Crom wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Obi-won didn't have achance, now if Yoda teamed up with MACE? now THEN he'd kick Palpatines ass!
Which raises the question in my mind was it a good idea for Yoda to personally take command of the defense of Kashyyk?

Since Yoda strikes me as the de facto leader of the Jedi Council I thought it was pretty strange for him to go out into the field like that. Wouldn't it have been more responsible of him to delegate the assignment to another Jedi Master?

Yoda did say in the movie that it was because he had good relations with the Wookies, but one would think that with their homeworld on the line the Wookies wouldn't be terribly particular about who the Republic sent, as long as the GAR showed up to help out. Especially when the Jedi Council was suspicious of Palpatine.

And could have Mace and Yoda, combined, taken out Darth Sidious?

I agree with crossroads on this one, if you look at the fight between palpy and mace, mace just about had him beat because the emporer was holding back. If the emporer wasent holding back he could have probobly beat Mace however if yoda was with mace, yoda's power would more than make up for the rest of the emporer's power assuming wasent holding back

...if that makes any sense...

Raven · Post by **Raven** » 2005-06-18 12:18am

Crom wrote: Which raises the question in my mind was it a good idea for Yoda to personally take command of the defense of Kashyyk?

Since Yoda strikes me as the de facto leader of the Jedi Council I thought it was pretty strange for him to go out into the field like that. Wouldn't it have been more responsible of him to delegate the assignment to another Jedi Master?

Yoda did say in the movie that it was because he had good relations with the Wookies, but one would think that with their homeworld on the line the Wookies wouldn't be terribly particular about who the Republic sent, as long as the GAR showed up to help out. Especially when the Jedi Council was suspicious of Palpatine.

And could have Mace and Yoda, combined, taken out Darth Sidious?

Yoda went to Kashyyk to draw out Sidious.
Obi-Wan capturing or killing Grievous would force Sidious's hand; having Yoda off-planet would make him less afraid to reveal himself. Mace and the Jedi Council thought they could handle it.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-18 01:29am

Short term Sidious was the greatest threat.
If left unchecked Anakin would have become unassailable (more powerful than Yoda and Sidious combined), so he was the greater long term threat.

I still think that they should have tag-teamed Anakin then ambushed Sidious when he came for revenge.

Morilore · Post by **Morilore** » 2005-06-18 02:40am

the .303 bookworm wrote:Short term Sidious was the greatest threat.
If left unchecked Anakin would have become unassailable (more powerful than Yoda and Sidious combined), so he was the greater long term threat.

He would be the most powerful force user in the galaxy. He would also remain a whiny retard who doesn't have one-tenth of Sidious's influence over clonetroopers. Failing all else, whatever planet he's on gets slagged.

I still think that they should have tag-teamed Anakin then ambushed Sidious when he came for revenge.

With three hundred and nine bugazillion stormtroopers. Right. Palpy may enjoy setting himself as bait, but he doesn't have that stupid "mano-a-mano" complex Jedi seem to have.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-06-18 02:43am

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Obi-won didn't have achance, now if Yoda teamed up with MACE? now THEN he'd kick Palpatines ass!

Mace considers Obi-wan to be the superior swordsman, a master of a defensive art to his creator of a killing art. Obi-wan kicked the shit out of Grievous, a cyborg who could handle multiple Jedi at once.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-18 10:59am

In the novelization, yoda says they couldn't beat Sidious even when working together. case closed.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-06-18 01:59pm

R.O.A wrote:...if that makes any sense...

No. What you're saying is:

If A < C and B < C, then A+B > C. But you can't say that, not knowing any quantifiable values for their strengths.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2005-06-18 02:03pm

Crom wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:Obi-won didn't have achance, now if Yoda teamed up with MACE? now THEN he'd kick Palpatines ass!
Which raises the question in my mind was it a good idea for Yoda to personally take command of the defense of Kashyyk?

Since Yoda strikes me as the de facto leader of the Jedi Council I thought it was pretty strange for him to go out into the field like that. Wouldn't it have been more responsible of him to delegate the assignment to another Jedi Master?

Yoda did say in the movie that it was because he had good relations with the Wookies, but one would think that with their homeworld on the line the Wookies wouldn't be terribly particular about who the Republic sent, as long as the GAR showed up to help out. Especially when the Jedi Council was suspicious of Palpatine.

They sent Yoda on purpose to tey and lull the other Sith into complacency. They alsmot sent away Mace and Yoda, but it would have been too dangerous they decided.

More people need to read the novel. So many of the questions that crop up here get answered in it.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-06-18 03:30pm

RAR thought: What if Mace had gone instead of Yoda?

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-18 04:59pm

Yoda would have had his ass kicked by Palpatine anyway and Mace would have been killed by traitor clonetroopers. MaceYoda survived because he was up in the HQ and was not surrounded by clonetroopers. Mace would die because he led troops from the frontlines. And this time, noone would be there to save Yoda from Anakin and Sidious.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-06-18 05:04pm

From Clone Wars, Mace has plenty of experience taking on a blaster-equipped army single-handed.

Hell, he even does a good part of it without his lightsaber.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-18 05:08pm

Not if the army is his own and surrounds him. all it takes is one guy to swivel and shoot while Mace is deflecting shots from the droid army. He goes down like what-his-name, the one with the second heart in his head.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-06-18 05:10pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:Not if the army is his own and surrounds him. all it takes is one guy to swivel and shoot while Mace is deflecting shots from the droid army. He goes down like what-his-name, the one with the second heart in his head.

Ki-Adi-Mundi and for the Jedi wankers, I have no dout that Mace would have gone down like rest had he still been alive during the implemation of Order 66.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-18 05:11pm

Thank you.

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2005-06-19 05:13am

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Obi-won didn't have achance, now if Yoda teamed up with MACE? now THEN he'd kick Palpatines ass!

Mace had Palpatines ass kicked, it was that dumb ass Anakin who ruined it

mr friendly guy · Post by **mr friendly guy** » 2005-06-19 10:48pm

Why couldn't Obi-Wan stay out of the way and attack at an opportune moment. Say when Sidious is throwing force lightning at Yoda, which Yoda was "catching" in his hands. There were precious seconds where they were facing each other, and it seems unlikely one could suddenly turn around. During that time Obi-Wan can attack Sidious from behind with his lightsaber.

Admiral Felire · Post by **Admiral Felire** » 2005-06-19 10:54pm

Wasn't it said that fighting and warfare was the domain of the 'shadow' and that by fighting at all they lost. Isn't this why Yoda decided to run away at his fight, because he realized that by fighting he already lost and to run away would allow him to do much more against the evil.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-20 05:12am

The problem was that Obi-Wan wasnt anywhere near Sidious's level, Sidious would probably have just blasted him into pulp then used him to get an advantage against Yoda.