Artist or sick bastard

[White Haven]

...What the fuck. Okay, so a picture of a man falling off a building is now automatically 'as if he were falling from the World Trade Center?' Lay off, unless there's some more source for this. He drew an idea from a nasty source, but that doesn't mean that anything but the idea have jack or shit to do with it.

[salm]

To me it looks like this: Many people percieve anything you do with the event 9/11 as mocking the dead for some reason. They think that this guy is celebrating the death of these people which he´s most likely not doing. Where the fuck do people even get the idea that he´s disrespecting the victims? It´s not like he´s wearing a t-shirt which says: "Hey, i´m the moron that jumped from a skyscraper in order to save my life".

He's having photographs taken of himself posed as if he's jumping out of the World Trade Center; at best it's in exceedingly poor taste, at worst it's mockery.

Yeah, we know what he´s doing. Why is it necessarily poor taste or mockery?

What artistic statement is there to this that commentary on a photo of an actual jumper wouldn't provide?

Why does this even matter? Should art only be done if it´s impossible to portray it as a commentrary on a photo?

[salm]

I certainly don't. However, given how a significant amount of art is an emotional, visceral reaction, using such powerful emotional imagery as a backdrop for your work requires a certain amount of delicacy and reverence without coming off as crude and clumsy.

What really set my bullshit meter off was his explanation:

“Mentally, physically and emotionally, from day to day, we fall. Even walking is falling: You take a step, fall and catch yourself,”

Essentially, he's taken a very specific, very traumatic incident and applied it in a very general, vague, New-Agey bullshit way, and mentioned the 9/11 connection simply for publicity. Frankly, it reeks of artist masturbation, to me.

You´ve got a point here. The whole life = falling does seem like a load of bullshit. And if there´s not more to it then it might really be nothing else than a PR stunt.

On the other hand he never claims that these specific falls he did from the museum roof had anything to do with 9/11. The only place where 9/11 comes in is where he tells us that he started thinking about falling when seeing the 9/11 jumpers.
So we only know that he saw 9/11, started thinking about jumping and now thinks that falling is some sort of metaphor. The wohle idea might have evolved and perhaps doesn´t have much to do with 9/11 anymore.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Does anyone have anything where he says, spcifically, he's imitating 9/11? I mean not drew an idea or watched it but he's saying, "Oh yeah well it's an imitation of 9/11"? More to the point has he said anything in the vein of, "Yeah those jumpers were fucking retarded, he-yuck!" or something similar?

If not then it's not a mockery, and you're being overly sensitive.

And i agree it's probably silly and stupid, not to mention dangerous as hell, but i cant imagine any real problem with it or how anyone could be hurt by it. People, you know, would actually have to watch him do this or buy the photos to see it, it's art and thus you actually have to go to it to view it. Dont like it, think it's stupid like me, then dont look. As far as i can see it's harmless, at worst it's merely dangerous for him, and unless someone can show otherwise, hardly offensive.

[Jadeite]

So the fuck what? "It's offensive!" Oh well. Personally, I think the photographs might turn out to look pretty neat.

[Frank Hipper]

Yeah, we know what he´s doing. Why is it necessarily poor taste or mockery?

It's in poor taste because he manipulated an emotionally charged recent tragedy as a public spectacle, like this observer who was there commented:

“It was fabulous,” said Darlene Schuff, 56. “I just wanted to be a part of it. It’s a happening.”

It can be seen as mockery due to the fact that he's playing "let's pretend" with the way people jumped to their deaths to avoid being burned to alive, for no gain other than his own.

Why does this even matter? Should art only be done if it´s impossible to portray it as a commentrary on a photo?

If he had such a deep need to experience falling in order to engage his depth of artistic understanding, he could have went bungee jumping, BASE jumping, or sky diving in a business suit.

BTW, Have you seen tape of this? He looked like an absolute clown, on top of everything else. I think if it had been a good piece of performance art I'd be of a somewhat different opinion; he looked like a moron swinging from wires doing cartoonish dive poses.


I can't see much to this other than self promotion through creating controversy.
It was in worst sort of poor taste, and extremely ill advised.

[salm]

Yeah, we know what he´s doing. Why is it necessarily poor taste or mockery?

It's in poor taste because he manipulated an emotionally charged recent tragedy as a public spectacle, like this observer who was there commented:

“It was fabulous,” said Darlene Schuff, 56. “I just wanted to be a part of it. It’s a happening.”

A public display of art is not necessarily a spectacle that mocks the portrayed event.
Just because some guests might percieve it like this doesn´t mean anything. After all some people might find the new jewish memorial in Berlin something fabulous. In fact they do. Kids play on it.

It can be seen as mockery due to the fact that he's playing "let's pretend" with the way people jumped to their deaths to avoid being burned to alive, for no gain other than his own.

How do you know? All we know is that he´s portraying a fall. It might not even be a simulated fall from the WTC. And even if it was a simulated fall from the WTC that doesn´t change anything. After all if he had painted a picture, would you react the same way? Are drawings and sculptures of concentration camps mockery? No, they´re not but they´re the same thing in principal. An abstract depiction of a horrible event.

If he had such a deep need to experience falling in order to engage his depth of artistic understanding, he could have went bungee jumping, BASE jumping, or sky diving in a business suit.

Sure, or he could jump from a museum. Big difference.

BTW, Have you seen tape of this? He looked like an absolute clown, on top of everything else. I think if it had been a good piece of performance art I'd be of a somewhat different opinion; he looked like a moron swinging from wires doing cartoonish dive poses.


I can't see much to this other than self promotion through creating controversy.
It was in worst sort of poor taste, and extremely ill advised.

If it was nothing but self promotion, i´d agree with you on the spot, but i´ll give him the benefit of doubt.

[Frank Hipper]

A public display of art is not necessarily a spectacle that mocks the portrayed event.
Just because some guests might percieve it like this doesn´t mean anything. After all some people might find the new jewish memorial in Berlin something fabulous. In fact they do. Kids play on it.

Why discount an adult interpretation of an event by using children's utilisation of a monument?

How do you know? All we know is that he´s portraying a fall. It might not even be a simulated fall from the WTC. And even if it was a simulated fall from the WTC that doesn´t change anything. After all if he had painted a picture, would you react the same way? Are drawings and sculptures of concentration camps mockery? No, they´re not but they´re the same thing in principal. An abstract depiction of a horrible event.

An abstract depiction of an event is not the same as recreating an event to explore the experience of people jumping to avoid being burned to death.

His own words reveal his inspiration:

Skarbakka, 34, said he started thinking about falling after watching on television as workers jumped to their deaths from the twin towers on Sept. 11, 2001.

“I was so distraught, I needed some way to find an artistic response,” he told the Chicago Sun-Times. Now, he says he sees falling as a metaphor for life.

“Mentally, physically and emotionally, from day to day, we fall. Even walking is falling: You take a step, fall and catch yourself,” he said.

If he wasn't imitating World Trade Center jumpers, why the business suit?
If this was purely to experience the metaphor, why not jump naked?
In a diaper?
In a cardboard coffin?

He makes a clear and not very easily misunderstood connection between September 11th and this performance.

Sure, or he could jump from a museum. Big difference.

The difference lies in his choice of clothing, and his stated impetus.

If it was nothing but self promotion, i´d agree with you on the spot, but i´ll give him the benefit of doubt.

Why?

[Mad]

If he wasn't imitating World Trade Center jumpers, why the business suit?

Remember the stock market crash in 1929?

[Frank Hipper]

If he wasn't imitating World Trade Center jumpers, why the business suit?

Remember the stock market crash in 1929?

He links September 11th to this himself.

[Mad]

He links September 11th to this himself.

Only the "falling" concept. He doesn't link anything else to it. There is no WTC, only a museum. There is no New York, only Chicago. Any linking to 9/11 beyond "someone falling" is an assumption, plain and simple.

That assumption may turn out to be correct, true. But it could also very well turn to be horribly wrong.

[Frank Hipper]

He links September 11th to this himself.

Only the "falling" concept. He doesn't link anything else to it. There is no WTC, only a museum. There is no New York, only Chicago. Any linking to 9/11 beyond "someone falling" is an assumption, plain and simple.

That assumption may turn out to be correct, true. But it could also very well turn to be horribly wrong.

As I intimated in an earlier post on this page, the "falling" idea could have been divorced from September 11th with a change of clothing.
With that, there would have been no controversy, but likely no press coverage, either.

[weemadando]

You're stretching a very thin point Hipper. I watched the footage of people jumping on September 11, and when I read this article, I thought that there was no fucking link at all. Its not like he's built a fucking replica facade or anything.

If anything I though it was a parody of the stereotype "stockmarket jumpers".

Some people are just way too sensitive about this shit.

[Frank Hipper]

You're stretching a very thin point Hipper. I watched the footage of people jumping on September 11, and when I read this article, I thought that there was no fucking link at all. Its not like he's built a fucking replica facade or anything.

If anything I though it was a parody of the stereotype "stockmarket jumpers".

Some people are just way too sensitive about this shit.

It isn't a thin point when he says himself that due to September 11th “I was so distraught, I needed some way to find an artistic response,”.

[weemadando]

Thats fucking great - but WHY ON EARTH do people think that what he is doing is somehow mocking, disrespectful or distasteful?

ITS NOT.

I really hate to break it to you, but this shouldn't be having such an emotional effect on people.

[weemadando]

And before you come back with "you don't know what we're talking about - you're a sociopathic arsehole" or some such shit...

I've had family friends attempt suicide by jumping from bridges. I have friends on whom I see the effects of people jumping (namely firefighters who have to "clean up" the jumpsites where people have landed). Hell, one family friend had a fucking jumper LAND ON HIM...

This is in addition to any and all of the bullshit you see on the news.

And yet, I do not find this piece of "art" offensive in the fucking least.

That must be because I'm an insensitive sociopathic Australian who doesn't truly understand what 9/11 did to your poor psyches - right?

[Frank Hipper]

And before you come back with "you don't know what we're talking about - you're a sociopathic arsehole" or some such shit...

I've had family friends attempt suicide by jumping from bridges. I have friends on whom I see the effects of people jumping (namely firefighters who have to "clean up" the jumpsites where people have landed). Hell, one family friend had a fucking jumper LAND ON HIM...

This is in addition to any and all of the bullshit you see on the news.

And yet, I do not find this piece of "art" offensive in the fucking least.

That must be because I'm an insensitive sociopathic Australian who doesn't truly understand what 9/11 did to your poor psyches - right?

You describe the line where people have your permission to be offended?
All on your lonesome, with no other reasoning than you have a thick skin?

[weemadando]

No, I'm saying that I find it amazing that people COULD find this offensive.

Sure, I've probably got a thick skin, but that doesn't change the fact that this piece of art despite being "inspired" by the WTC events, has no other link to it at all.

So he jumped in a suit. Wonderful. He also jumped in Chicago. From a museum roof. Sure isn't a good collection of evidence if you want to say that he's insulting WTC victims.

And people don't need my permission to be offended. I really don't give a shit if they are. But sadly, those who are offended tend to be the vocal fucknuts who get their shit all over the media. Can't people just be quietly offended nowadays?

And just so you know - read the artists statement again... He says that the WTC events made him think about falling. And then he began thinking about falling more and more and he got the idea. So, going by the "Frank Hipper (TM) School of Artistic Censorship", we should ban the following just for starters:

Buffalo Soldiers - images of falling
Die Hard - several cases of men falling from a skyscraper (DEAR GOD NO!)
Ladder 49 - theres a burning tall structure AND people falling
The Game - a man jumping from a skyscraper after pushing another
The Rock - man falls from window

and of course any other image in art of someone falling, just because it MIGHT offend someone. Now, we wouldn't want that particular series of events to come to pass, would we?

[Lord Poe]

If you look up Kerry Skarbakka on Google, you'll find pictures of him falling down stairs, from ladders, off bridges, out of trees, etc.

If he was really attention whoring 9-11, he'd be wearing a turban throwing paper airplanes at the Sears tower.

[Frank Hipper]

No, I'm saying that I find it amazing that people COULD find this offensive.

Sure, I've probably got a thick skin, but that doesn't change the fact that this piece of art despite being "inspired" by the WTC events, has no other link to it at all.

So he jumped in a suit. Wonderful. He also jumped in Chicago. From a museum roof. Sure isn't a good collection of evidence if you want to say that he's insulting WTC victims.

No, doing it in Chicago shows that he's got half a brain; he'd have been torn to pieces if he'd done it New York.

And people don't need my permission to be offended. I really don't give a shit if they are. But sadly, those who are offended tend to be the vocal fucknuts who get their shit all over the media. Can't people just be quietly offended nowadays?

Blame him, this was his media stunt.

And just so you know - read the artists statement again... He says that the WTC events made him think about falling. And then he began thinking about falling more and more and he got the idea.

And I covered that in my responces to salm.

So, going by the "Frank Hipper (TM) School of Artistic Censorship",...

You assume far too much, appealer to motive.

... we should ban the following just for starters:

Buffalo Soldiers - images of falling
Die Hard - several cases of men falling from a skyscraper (DEAR GOD NO!)
Ladder 49 - theres a burning tall structure AND people falling
The Game - a man jumping from a skyscraper after pushing another
The Rock - man falls from window

and of course any other image in art of someone falling, just because it MIGHT offend someone. Now, we wouldn't want that particular series of events to come to pass, would we?

None of those have any tie to the World Trade Center, this guy does...and who the fuck said anything about banning?

Just so we're crystal clear on this, when I watched him doing this on TV the other day it got the horribly wounded, deeply and righteously offended response of an eye-roll from me.

When I said---

I think it would be great art to set this guy on fire and throw him, screaming, from the roof of a large building.

Now that's art!

it's as much a joke about performance artists (You know performance artists? they're as likely to spray blood and milk enemas on stage and lick them up as drop multi ton I-beams into concrete from 150 foot cranes) as I was evincing mock outrage.

However, my positions on this remain:
He admits to being inspired intially by September 11th, and wears a business suit while staging jumper photos.

If he was so innocently exploring the artistic depth of the metaphor between falling and life, why the clothing that links this to his admitted impetus?

If this is just a case of people over-reacting, why isn't there anything to show that he distanced this performance from World Trade Center jumpers?

This was a media grabbing self-promotion stunt.

It's in poor taste at best, mockery at worst.

A final off-topic note to you, ando; Chris Burden is real performance artist in my mind.
He does lighthearted, fun, and whimsical things like have himself crucified to a VW Bug with a nail gun, complete with a brick on the accelerator pedal to make the engine scream, or get shot and have it filmed.
This guy is just a media-minded whore selling himself.

Chris Burden

[Frank Hipper]

If you look up Kerry Skarbakka on Google, you'll find pictures of him falling down stairs, from ladders, off bridges, out of trees, etc.

That reinforces my point that this particular event was inspired by the World Trade Center jumpers, I never questioned that he has a fascination with falling in general.

If he was really attention whoring 9-11, he'd be wearing a turban throwing paper airplanes at the Sears tower.

[Mad]

If you look up Kerry Skarbakka on Google, you'll find pictures of him falling down stairs, from ladders, off bridges, out of trees, etc.

That reinforces my point that this particular event was inspired by the World Trade Center jumpers, I never questioned that he has a fascination with falling in general.

No, it reinforces my point that it's reminicient of the 1929 stock market crash, where people in business suits jumped off of buildings to commit suicide!

[Frank Hipper]

If you look up Kerry Skarbakka on Google, you'll find pictures of him falling down stairs, from ladders, off bridges, out of trees, etc.

That reinforces my point that this particular event was inspired by the World Trade Center jumpers, I never questioned that he has a fascination with falling in general.

No, it reinforces my point that it's reminicient of the 1929 stock market crash, where people in business suits jumped off of buildings to commit suicide!

Show us what you've got by way of evidence for this.

[weemadando]

That reinforces my point that this particular event was inspired by the World Trade Center jumpers, I never questioned that he has a fascination with falling in general.

No, it reinforces my point that it's reminicient of the 1929 stock market crash, where people in business suits jumped off of buildings to commit suicide!

Show us what you've got by way of evidence for this.

Wow. The delusion rocks on.

The fact that the guy has been doing "falling" stunts for many a year, just points to this being the next logical step for him. And yes, he was inspired by the WTC events. Cry me a fucking river. Its 4 fucking years later. Aside from inspiration 4 years ago, he has taken NO steps to recreate the WTC events. This has been a work of art from start to finish. He has done NOTHING to mock, belittle or begrudge WTC victims or survivors. His "art" has merely taken a form that has had to be so obtusely viewed to be linked to the WTC events that it amazes me that people crying foul over this are able to exist in normal society. When you bring me some definitive proof, that the artist INTENDED TO MIMIC THE WTC EVENTS, then I'll back off. But in the meantime take your suitcase of sorrows and get the fuck out of of town.

[Zaia]

It's art.

September 11th is probably going to remain one of the most emotional days many of us will live through. People who live to express themselves through art, whether that art is sculpture, painting, music, writing, dance, or even performance art, will react to it through their art. It's what they do.