Battletech in World War I

[Nephtys]

AC5... as a 120mm? I'm darn sure that's a mistake there. I've never seen AC5 as anything greater than 80/

[Batman]

AC5... as a 120mm? I'm darn sure that's a mistake there. I've never seen AC5 as anything greater than 80/

I'll try to dig up the quote and it was one of the german releases so it might be a translation error but I DO recall the last of the original Grey Hounds novels calling the Marauder's autocannon 120mm (and giving it an absolutely ridiculous amount of ammunition to boot).

[SylasGaunt]

Which is really weird since IIRC the Blood of Kerensky books put a Victor's autocannon as a 100mm

[PainRack]

In both quotes it's targeting data that's affected.

And how is this not equals to jamming?

Dawn could still see, and probably knew the targeting data she had before her TC started acting out. So she fires her SRM's scoring a hit. This is in no way inconsistent with how SRM's work as they are pretty hit and miss affair, even when TC is working properly. Unless she was firing STREAKs, but that there was no indication of this. To my knowledge STREAKs do not even fire if target lock is not achieved.

Except this is neither here nor there. Again, the targeting computer failed to lock onto the target due to a result of jamming. Its an instance of jamming being used to defeat the T&T system.

This disruption in targeting data can be caused by laser emitters, that feed false data to the TC, preventing it from getting the accurate range to target. This hampers ballistic weapon fire to longer ranges, and I'd think in case of BT lasers to degree also. This due to their "blowtorch" way of working, where the beam has to be on target for few seconds (or something like that) to have a chance at penetration. For this to happen you need speed and direction of movement. I do think mechs also employ some form of radar to achieve this, but that can be also disrupted by ECM.

Both cases state that the disruption was caused when at close range, and mech SRM range is about 300m.

And all these rebuttal means nothing. Jamming can be used to defeat the T&T system.

Neither instance provides evidence to the effect that mech ECM is cabable of interfering with true optical systems. For that you'd need some form of optical camouflage.

Except in order to score a accurate hit on an enemy, you need to lock onto the target, as seen in the Btech novels AS well as Solaris and to a certain extent, Battleforce. This appears to be the effect of VirtuaWorld and its method of locking onto targets. There are possibilities why this is required, ergo, a mechwarrior is actually aiming at "vulnerable" points of the armour.

I did theorize in the WWII thead that the AC/20 is actually a HEAT/HE weapon (depending on fusing). This would explain the short range, it's use on assault mechs and it's popularity on Solaris arenas.

-Gunhead

Actually, the quotes does support this......... I have to dig them out but I do recall several Btech sourcebooks suggesting that the autocannons fire explosive AP rounds.

[Gunhead]

It seems I have to clarify a bit. I wasn't saying ECM doesn't affect mechs TC's and I even explained how it could work.

The whole point was, that even if Dawn was receiving false target data, she could still see. Her visual detection wasn't affected. She also could and did fire her weapons even though they weren't locked.

The basic tank sight is nothing more than a sniper scope with a crosshair.
No amount of ECM is going to affect it.
You can fool a laser range finder, for example. But if the gunner decides to use an optical range finder or just plain simple guesses the range and enters it manually, ECM or other forms of electronic disruption won't work.

-Gunhead

[Batman]

Got it! 'Der Preis des Ruhms', pg14.
'Grayson war nicht deer kleinsten einer, daher hatte er zwischen den Lagerregalen mit 120mm Granatmagazinen für die Rückenkanone des Marodeur kaum Platz'
Which I'd broadly translate as
'Grayson wasn't a small one, so he barely fit between the shelves with 120mm shells for the Marauder's back autocannon'
Somebody with the english copy of 'Price Of Glory' may want to verify this.

[Imperial Overlord]

AC5... as a 120mm? I'm darn sure that's a mistake there. I've never seen AC5 as anything greater than 80/

I'll try to dig up the quote and it was one of the german releases so it might be a translation error but I DO recall the last of the original Grey Hounds novels calling the Marauder's autocannon 120mm (and giving it an absolutely ridiculous amount of ammunition to boot).

The Marauder's AC being a 120mm GM Whirl Wind Autocannon is also in the 3025 Tech Manual. Guess what I played a lot of in 10th grade and for bonus points, guess which 'mech was my favorite.

[PainRack]

The Marauder's AC being a 120mm GM Whirl Wind Autocannon is also in the 3025 Tech Manual. Guess what I played a lot of in 10th grade and for bonus points, guess which 'mech was my favorite.

Which entry? Cause, I don't see that.....

[Gunhead]

Painrack, I just noticed something. That quote about the mechbuster AC pretty much destroys the game model of armor penetration. It says a single hit can destroy a mech up to 70tons. You know, and I know, that in game, a mech of 55t can mount enough armor to take a hit from an AC/20.

This also backed up by a quote from the 3026 where mechs where destroyed outright by headshots from infantry. No BT inf weapon ingame can destroy a mech with a single headshot, and scoring multiple headshots even from point blank sounds a bit unlikely.

The first quote also trashes quite a bit about how novels depict the armor.

I need to look into this.

-Gunhead

[Straha]

Painrack, I just noticed something. That quote about the mechbuster AC pretty much destroys the game model of armor penetration. It says a single hit can destroy a mech up to 70tons. You know, and I know, that in game, a mech of 55t can mount enough armor to take a hit from an AC/20.

This also backed up by a quote from the 3026 where mechs where destroyed outright by headshots from infantry. No BT inf weapon ingame can destroy a mech with a single headshot, and scoring multiple headshots even from point blank sounds a bit unlikely.

The first quote also trashes quite a bit about how novels depict the armor.

I need to look into this.

-Gunhead

I think it's more a matter of precision then of sheer-fire power. An AC-20 could, with a skilled pilot, probably smash the joints of almost any mech untill you get to the heavy tonnage mechs which simply have too much power for it to smash through....

[Nephtys]

Painrack, I just noticed something. That quote about the mechbuster AC pretty much destroys the game model of armor penetration. It says a single hit can destroy a mech up to 70tons. You know, and I know, that in game, a mech of 55t can mount enough armor to take a hit from an AC/20.

This also backed up by a quote from the 3026 where mechs where destroyed outright by headshots from infantry. No BT inf weapon ingame can destroy a mech with a single headshot, and scoring multiple headshots even from point blank sounds a bit unlikely.

The first quote also trashes quite a bit about how novels depict the armor.

I need to look into this.

-Gunhead

The TROs have issues, especially the origional trio (3025, 3026 and 2750). Many of their fluff has been retconned in later texts. I believe one of the most crazy was the origional BL-7-KNT having a feature of thise crazy advanced 'double' heatsinks that were unique to it. Sheesh. Level 2 BT without DHS...

Also, an AC20 does have the capacity to a mech up to 70 tons. Mechs below 70 tons might not mount enough armor to fully stop a hit from penetrating the armor, although that's mostly the weaker bunch of the origional 3025 designs. One good example is the side torsos of the popular MAD-3R, terribly flawed with the ammo available to crit if you can AC20 the side torsos...

Note the quote says 'A' mech. Not 'any' mech. 3026 quotes of infantry headshots? I think we can safely write that off as old fluff, worse than even that 'Atlas versus a batallion of stingers results in Atlas walking home later casually , and one surviving stinger.'

[The Dark]

Hell, with critical hits, only Atlas, the non-PPC-carrying Awesomes, Charger, King Crab, and Banshee can't be one-shotted by an AC/20 from in front on a normal attack roll in 3025. Everything else has side torso armor thin enough to be penetrated with one shot and ammunition or weapons that explode in the side torso. That means there are 90-ton 'Mechs that an AC/20 can take out with a single shot to the front.

As far as 55-ton 'Mechs go, the Dervish, Griffin, Scorpion, or Kintaro would suffer a crit wherever it was hit except Center Torso Front. -2H and -2K variants of Shadow Hawk would be similar, but -2D variants would suffer a crit anywhere it was struck. Wolverine is the only one who could take a hit anywhere on the Torso in front and not suffer a crit.

There's a reason the AC/20 is known as a 'Mechbuster. As noted, either MadCat or MadCat Pryde will get torn up fairly badly if hit in the side torso with an AC/20. Loki won't care much for it either, since it'll take engine hits on a 'Mech which generally runs hot anyway (unless in its Alt B configuration). Vulture (unless Alt C) should also fear the AC/20, with its massive ammunition loads. They got smart with Crossbow, putting everything in the arms.

[PainRack]

Painrack, I just noticed something. That quote about the mechbuster AC pretty much destroys the game model of armor penetration. It says a single hit can destroy a mech up to 70tons. You know, and I know, that in game, a mech of 55t can mount enough armor to take a hit from an AC/20.

You assume a single hit= a single shell, whereas I interprete a single hit as an entire volley. For example,

three tons of ammunition for a total of 15 rounds of firing

Thunder, TR 3055/3058.

Also, which entry are you referring to? I can't find any such notation in the Hetzer and Demolisher entries.

This also backed up by a quote from the 3026 where mechs where destroyed outright by headshots from infantry. No BT inf weapon ingame can destroy a mech with a single headshot, and scoring multiple headshots even from point blank sounds a bit unlikely.

-Gunhead

Again, which entry? The only remotely close entry I can think of would be the APC entry, which had entire companies firing at single mechs at point blank range, which would thus be possible. Furthermore, this ignores the possibility of heavy weapons or even field guns as attested by Max tech.

[The Yosemite Bear]

didn't I once state that elephants were the first and last functional battlemechs to ever be used in combat?