Borg or Vong?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-21 01:04am

Both of these groups seem to garner a great deal of flak from fans, some deservedly so, some not. My question is, all things considered, which later-comer faction do you regard with more distain? Star Trek's Zombie/Vampire assimilation happy, previous characterization disregarding Borg collective, or the Biotech using religious zealots who were the Yuuzhan Vong?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-21 01:07am

Bio wank fanatics> techno wank zombies.
At least the Borg didnt kill Chewbakka, Anakin and didnt showcase such unbelievable political incompetence from the NR goverment.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-21 01:15am

At least the Borg didnt kill Chewbakka, Anakin

One would wonder how it would be literally possible for the Borg to do so.
And its spelled Chewbacca.

didnt showcase such unbelievable political incompetence from the NR goverment.

This is a fault of they'res how?

To clarify, this is a Vong/ Borg thread, not an NJO/Voyager thread.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-06-21 01:36am

Voyager era Borg. How the mighty have fallen always comes to mind when I see them.

It was an idea that had awesome potential and was completely ruined by B&B.

The Vong only dreamed of that kind of potential. IMO.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2005-06-21 02:11am

Vong. I don't even read SW books, and I hate every mention of them from what I've heard. At least the Borg were once interesting.

Perseid · Post by **Perseid** » 2005-06-21 04:58am

Got to be the Voyager era Borg, just for the fact that they should have just assimilated Voyager as soon as they encountered her.

When they brought the Borg into Voyager they ruined the one good faction in the entire universe, they used to be cold and ruthless and never negotiate with anyone, at all. The Voyager era borg are just a bunch of pussies who are about as threatening as a wet piece of toilet paper.

Whilst the Vong were shit this can be put down to the fact that there were 14 different writers for the 19 books and no one could come to a concensus on how the Vong should be, therefore i blame the writers (with the exception of Aaron Allston who seems to be the only writer with a sense of humour).

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-06-21 10:44am

the borg had promise, but was totally trashed by VOY.

The Vong on the other hand...they read like a bad episode of Voyager from the start.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-06-22 08:33am

The Vong annoy me on an almost supernatural level. Much as I detest the B&Bization of the Borg, I detest the Vong more.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2005-06-22 08:43am

The needs of Star Wars outweigh the needs of Star Trek.

Vong.

Srynerson · Post by **Srynerson** » 2005-06-23 12:10am

As others have noted: the Borg started out with promise, the Vong didn't.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-06-23 02:17am

The Borg started out cool, and got sucky
The Vong started out sucky and ended sucky

Advantage: Borg, gotta start somewhere

The Borg were eventually defeated by a Single Federation Ship
The Vong were eventually defeated by Jedi and the Alliance Fleet

Advantage: Vong, if you're judging losers, judge by who they lose to

Shittiest writer(s) for Borg plots: Berman and Braga
Shittiest writer(s) for Vong plots: Michael Stackpole

Advantage: Vong, for some reason a few people actually like Stackpole

Borg were on TV and in movies (albeit shitty ones mostly)
Vong were in novels (albeit shitty ones mostly)

Advantage: Borg, on an even playing field TV always trumps books, no reading required

TIEBREAKER ROUND:

Borg Slogan is "Resistance is Futile"
Vong Slogan is indiscernable gibberish praising their 'gods'

Advantage and Victoly: Borg, although the Vong would win in a fight.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-06-23 02:37am

Well, although I like the idea of religious zealots appeals to me, you know it adds spice, uberbiotech does not appeal to me in the slightest.

So, the Vong sit in the depths of my brain, slowly murdering me. Slowly, ever so slowly

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-06-23 03:37am

Darth Fanboy wrote: The Borg were eventually defeated by a Single Federation Ship
The Vong were eventually defeated by Jedi and the Alliance Fleet

Technically they weren't defeated by a single federation ship. I hope you're not thinking about the Voyager fallacy. Voyager never defeated anything larger than a scout, in a straight up fight.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-06-23 06:33am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Darth Fanboy wrote: The Borg were eventually defeated by a Single Federation Ship
The Vong were eventually defeated by Jedi and the Alliance Fleet
Technically they weren't defeated by a single federation ship. I hope you're not thinking about the Voyager fallacy. Voyager never defeated anything larger than a scout, in a straight up fight.

Im thinking about BoBW part 2. The fleet at Wolf 359 failed, but the E-D managed to sop them.

Then there was Dr. Crusher defeating the Borg with an E-D skeleton crew. I realize they weren't Borg from the Collective and that she used a nearby star to win, but the E-D did in fact, win.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-06-23 06:34am

Inevitable response:
But The E-D only won because of Data's haXX0ring!

My response to that:
Too bad, it was still a single ship which eventually did it. In fact, the way the Borg were defeated in BoBW still bugs me to this day as being incredibly lame.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-06-23 11:31am

Darth Fanboy wrote:Inevitable response:
But The E-D only won because of Data's haXX0ring!

My response to that:
Too bad, it was still a single ship which eventually did it. In fact, the way the Borg were defeated in BoBW still bugs me to this day as being incredibly lame.

A matter of fact. The E-D did nothing. She was nearly destroyed by the Borg cutting beam, if it hadn't been for the advantage that having Picard gave them then they wouldn't have won.

The closest example of a straight up fight against the Borg was First Contact, but even then they still needed that hidden ace.

Thus, the E-D was able to defeat them because they had Picard. Voyager was able to defeat them because they had 7of9.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-06-23 01:16pm

If the fleet had been smart enough to simply focus fire on the most damaged portion of the cube before Picard showed up, his involvement might not have been necessary.

PS. If you combine the Borg and the Vong, you get a bong!

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2005-06-23 02:24pm

Darth Wong wrote:If the fleet had been smart enough to simply focus fire on the most damaged portion of the cube before Picard showed up, his involvement might not have been necessary.

I absolutely agree. The only reason I consider it a hidden ace is because they still needed Picard to sense out the obvious. That doesn't say much for Starfleet, but at this point in Star Trek's history you really can't do any worse.

PS. If you combine the Borg and the Vong, you get a bong!

Thus, we can conclude that the writers were smoking pot. Which is why their species either sucked immediately or eventually started sucking.

LaserRifleofDoom · Post by **LaserRifleofDoom** » 2005-06-23 02:43pm

Much as I hate to advocate either side, especially with a serious comment

...
But couldn't the Borg use their uber-assimilating nanites to take over (parts) of the Vong biotech?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-23 02:49pm

LaserRifleofDoom wrote:Much as I hate to advocate either side, especially with a serious comment ...
But couldn't the Borg use their uber-assimilating nanites to take over (parts) of the Vong biotech?

Probably not. They couldnt do that to Species 8472 after all.

Junghalli · Post by **Junghalli** » 2005-06-23 03:20pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
LaserRifleofDoom wrote:Much as I hate to advocate either side, especially with a serious comment ...
But couldn't the Borg use their uber-assimilating nanites to take over (parts) of the Vong biotech?
Probably not. They couldnt do that to Species 8472 after all.

A species that had one of the strongest immune systems in the known universe. Saying the Borg can't assimilate biotech because they can't assimilate 8472 tech is just wrong on so many levels.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-23 03:26pm

A species that had one of the strongest immune systems in the known universe. Saying the Borg can't assimilate biotech because they can't assimilate 8472 tech is just wrong on so many levels.

Fair enough. Still, if Species 8472 is an invalid example, then theres no shown instance of the Borg attempting to assimilate Bio-tech. I suppose it is possible that they could, although to my knowelge, the Borg have never been shown to have assimilate any life form that was non-humaniod. An interesting thought.

HyperionX · Post by **HyperionX** » 2005-06-23 03:41pm

uber-Cyborg tech is infinitely more believable than uber-biotech. Borg > Vong.

TimothyC · Post by **TimothyC** » 2005-06-23 05:43pm

Junghalli wrote:
Pure Sabacc wrote:
LaserRifleofDoom wrote:Much as I hate to advocate either side, especially with a serious comment ...
But couldn't the Borg use their uber-assimilating nanites to take over (parts) of the Vong biotech?
Probably not. They couldnt do that to Species 8472 after all.
A species that had one of the strongest immune systems in the known universe. Saying the Borg can't assimilate biotech because they can't assimilate 8472 tech is just wrong on so many levels.

I hated the episode, but in " Regeneration" Phlox was able to fight off the Borg Nanites.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-06-23 07:44pm

no, he was able to delay the assimilating action of the nanites. But without that strange radiation that would kill off a human but he has a resistance to, he would have been assimilated.

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Borg or Vong?

Which group do you dislike more?

Borg or Vong?