Why use clones over droids?

Natorgator · Post by **Natorgator** » 2005-06-21 01:42am

Just as the topic says. What's the advantage of making clones when droids can be produced so cheaply and effectively? Are clones more versatile?

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-21 03:29am

This is pretty much explained in an explicit fashion by Prime Minister Lama Su in Attack of the Clones.

Realistically, the superiority of clones over battle droids is arguable.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-21 08:26am

Clones can take the initiative, think creatively, and can still have standardized weapons and armor. The clone army probably uses one or two sizes of uniforms in all.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2005-06-21 11:29am

In the translated novelisation Lama Su says that Sifo- Dyas explained to them that the Jedi were averge to controlling droids, they could only command a living force.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2005-06-21 11:39am

The biggest advantage I can see is that with clones you don't have to worry about having your droid command ship get blown to pieces and effectively ending the battle.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-21 12:35pm

That problem was solved as of AotC. The droids were no longer dependant on a droid control ship.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2005-06-21 12:36pm

They didn't?

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-21 12:55pm

In fact, in the RotS novelization and AotC deleted scenes, they mention/show the destruction of the droid control ship and how the droids power down for a second and then turn back on. They just can't be given as detailed orders as with the droid control ship.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-21 03:14pm

Yep, there's a deleted scene where a Jedi strike team destroys the command ship. The droids halt for a second and the arena Jedi cheer.. but the machines whirr back to life a moment later (though possibly with reduced coordination, tactical creativity and initiative).

Trooper TK12746 wrote:Clones can take the initiative, think creatively, and can still have standardized weapons and armor. The clone army probably uses one or two sizes of uniforms in all.

They do indeed have advantages in the brains department... and, in a manner, no disadvantages in terms of firepower and armor; where large droids are used, like Spiders and Hailfires, the Clones simply use vehicles for the same role.

However, I'm not sure if the aforementioned advantages (creativity, initiative) really do make up for the massive numerical superiority that a battle droid army (at similar cost) would enjoy.

vakundok wrote:In the translated novelisation Lama Su says that Sifo- Dyas explained to them that the Jedi were averge to controlling droids, they could only command a living force.

Ah, yeah.. I'd forgotten about the Force aspect of the deal. I guess Jedi can group buff clone squads, but not droids

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-21 06:47pm

The clones can also be upgraded without making a new one. And they can learn and improve as a result of combat experience. When you want to upgrade (a good combat upgrade) a droid, you have to build a new one or add new parts to it.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2005-06-21 07:54pm

Not to mention all of the other nasty shit that can muck up droids: there's the potential for havoc due to natural and artificial EM waves, environmental hazards such as excessive moisture or heat, some sort of malicious electronic espionage, and the bad PR that could crop up.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2005-06-21 08:22pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:The clones can also be upgraded without making a new one. And they can learn and improve as a result of combat experience. When you want to upgrade (a good combat upgrade) a droid, you have to build a new one or add new parts to it.

Why would it be harder to equip a droid than a clone? You've still got to build and give them equipment. Besides, when you give a clone a new weapon, you've got to teach them how to use it. With a droid, you can train one of them to use it, save that combat experience to disk, and then upload it into all your new droids.

Besides, why can't a droid learn and improve as are result of combat experience? Hell, you'd think it would be easier to teach a droid, since a droid you can plug into a computer and upload as many hours of combat experience and weapons training you want.

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2005-06-21 08:41pm

Sharpshooter wrote:Not to mention all of the other nasty shit that can muck up droids: there's the potential for havoc due to natural and artificial EM waves, environmental hazards such as excessive moisture or heat, some sort of malicious electronic espionage, and the bad PR that could crop up.

Same applies to clones- vacuum, biochemical agents, etc.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2005-06-21 08:45pm

Pu-239 wrote:
Sharpshooter wrote:Not to mention all of the other nasty shit that can muck up droids: there's the potential for havoc due to natural and artificial EM waves, environmental hazards such as excessive moisture or heat, some sort of malicious electronic espionage, and the bad PR that could crop up.
Same applies to clones- vacuum, biochemical agents, etc.

Isn't clone/storm trooper armor air tight and pressurized?

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2005-06-21 09:29pm

Flagg wrote:
Pu-239 wrote:
Sharpshooter wrote:Not to mention all of the other nasty shit that can muck up droids: there's the potential for havoc due to natural and artificial EM waves, environmental hazards such as excessive moisture or heat, some sort of malicious electronic espionage, and the bad PR that could crop up.
Same applies to clones- vacuum, biochemical agents, etc.
Isn't clone/storm trooper armor air tight and pressurized?

So? You can shield against nasty radiation, moisture, heat, EMP, etc on droids as well.

Shogoki · Post by **Shogoki** » 2005-06-21 11:21pm

It think droid's potential for millitary use is limited due to the possibility that, if left unattended, and learns too much, it may eventually rebel against it's owners, a la IG-88, except in huge numbers. Maybe that's also the reason why they stop working when the control ship gets destroyed, it's too dangerous to give them independent minds.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-06-22 01:48am

Perhaps battledroids have their programming checked on a regular basis, thus making it difficult to conceal Order 66 in them. Probably easier to hide things like that in an organic brain.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-22 01:52am

Woudnt the separatist's hae an advantage against other droids?
After all how hard would it be to hack them or take advantage of the design flaws of inferior enemy droids.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2005-06-22 02:37am

Clones can also have a "kill all jedi" subroutine programmed in without having some snooping techie/jedi (Anakin) or maintenance guy stumbling upon it.

edit: dammit iguana!

General Brock · Post by **General Brock** » 2005-06-22 04:28am

Could be a cultural thing; most SW cultures are more comfortable commanding an organic sentient, maybe. There seems to be a disdain for droids. Clonetroopers need someplace to live, food, water, and medical care whereas driods might be constructed more independent of maintenance and so harder to contain of they do go rogue.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2005-06-22 05:37am

Having just read the ROTS novelisation I feel Dooku's internal monologue reveals a lot.

The Civil War was a set-up with evil, greedy, slimy aliens with their inhuman robo-soldiers on one side and the Republic with it's genetically superior humans on the other.

That, and as has been already pointed out it would be harder to find/alter Order 66 in a fleshy than a droid.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-06-22 07:28am

A droid army could potentially be vulnerable to some sort of slicer attack. You can't hack an army of humans, but you might be able to find some kind of hack for an army of droids. That's a particular point of weakness that clone armies won't have. Hell, that's what happened at the end of the Clone Wars; they shut down the entire droid army with a single command.

That could arguably have been part of Palpatine's thinking; an enemy with a single point of failure is convenient when you're only using them as pawns in the first place.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-22 08:03am

Darth Wong wrote:That's a particular point of weakness that clone armies won't have. Hell, that's what happened at the end of the Clone Wars; they shut down the entire droid army with a single command.

That could arguably have been part of Palpatine's thinking; an enemy with a single point of failure is convenient when you're only using them as pawns in the first place.

Whether by chance or by design, it certainly was a very convenient feature for Palpatine.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-06-22 08:27am

What if they'd just fielded a force of Terminator Endoskeletons and given them the Clones's gear?

As to the slicer angle, that is a good point, but then again, we have 'mind slicing' in Star Wars.. via Jedi and other mind control tricks, even with drugs like Spice. And instead of EMP's we have biological and chemical agents. Wasn't there some EU story about some anti-clone virus being used in the Clone Wars? (Off screen of course)

I guessed that the Jedi were commanding the Clones (as of AOTC), but then with Order 66, Palpatine took control of them (sort of like the Battle Meditation thing). If Droids can have a "backup brain" with loss of coordination but still function, and if the humans under the control of the Empire can have their own "backup" but lesser coordination after the Emperor's death...

So why didn't the Jedi prevent Order 66 from happening? Simple, the Shroud of the Darkside that the Sith were creating prevented them from realizing that the 'safeties were off' so to speak and didn't see it coming. Perhaps that would help explain some of the shock on the Jedi faces... Ki Adi Mundi's "C'mon!" and then realizing they're not obeying him anymore. Funny.. it always worked before! *boom*

Emperor Palpatine = the 'Droid Control Ship' of his human weapons?

I'm just purely speculating here of course.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-22 08:45am

At the end of the Clone Wars, the droids were shut down completely. Palpatine's death didn't actually kill anyone.

Clone and Stormie armor is impervious to NBC weapons.