Could 4-Lom learn the Force?

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-21 12:55pm

Okay. So 4-Lom would be a robot inside a body?

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2005-06-21 12:59pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:Okay. So 4-Lom would be a robot inside a body?

Nope. He'd become the Force user inside a robot body. Basically Grievous + Force sensitivity.

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2005-06-21 03:04pm

Crown wrote:Nowhere in the Zahn books does it even suggest that the Emperor made her a Force sensitive when she wasn't one.

Then it appears I do not remember correctly. Not reading the books in six years or so can do that to you...

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-21 06:44pm

There is not anyone or anything that can become a Force user! It can't happen! YOu either start out as one, or you never become one!

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-21 10:19pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:There is not anyone or anything that can become a Force user! It can't happen! YOu either start out as one, or you never become one!

Calm down bucko.

As a side note, Desaan's reborn are non-force users endowed with force powers via Valley of the Jedi powered crystals. Low canon, but I just thought I would bring it up.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-21 11:54pm

Pure Sabacc wrote:
Trooper TK12746 wrote:There is not anyone or anything that can become a Force user! It can't happen! YOu either start out as one, or you never become one!
Calm down bucko.

As a side note, Desaan's reborn are non-force users endowed with force powers via Valley of the Jedi powered crystals. Low canon, but I just thought I would bring it up.

They were first taken to the valley of the jedi, possibly the most powerful force nexus in existence and were imbued with force power, the crystals just gave them an extra boost, not all their power.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-22 12:09am

They were first taken to the valley of the jedi, possibly the most powerful force nexus in existence and were imbued with force power, the crystals just gave them an extra boost, not all their power.

Nevertheless, they were imbued with force powers, they didnt have them originally.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2005-06-22 12:30am

The Valley of the Jedi is essentially a direct fount of Force energy. When the Reborn touched it, they became Force sensitive, though only moderately so. IIRC, the crystals the Shadowtroopers carried allowed them to channel their marginal Force abilities into a cloaking device, letting them cloak at will. They didn't give the bearer Force abilities, just acted as a conduit for them, enhancing what the bearer could do (in this case, allowing them to cloak).

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-22 12:52am

Pure Sabacc wrote:
They were first taken to the valley of the jedi, possibly the most powerful force nexus in existence and were imbued with force power, the crystals just gave them an extra boost, not all their power.
Nevertheless, they were imbued with force powers, they didnt have them originally.

Wasnt arguing about that, I was talking about the force crystal's.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-22 08:15am

Is this mentioned anywhere outside a game? If not, its not canon or even quasi-canon.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-22 08:57am

Trooper TK12746 wrote:Is this mentioned anywhere outside a game? If not, its not canon or even quasi-canon.

I think that a comic called "Splinter of the minds eye" had a uber enhancing crystal, but i'd say it's only quasi-canon.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-22 09:42am

I never go to read that book. Is the crystal enhancing powers or giving them?

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2005-06-22 10:26am

Trooper TK12746 wrote:I never go to read that book. Is the crystal enhancing powers or giving them?

Neither, they an extra boost of force energy. (like a medkit for the force)

:Edit: I meant the crystals in the JK game

LaserRifleofDoom · Post by **LaserRifleofDoom** » 2005-06-22 10:51am

I read the book. It never really explains what the crystal does. A small shard of it lets one character use the force a little, but it might just be that she had some latent ability anyway. The only thing we know for sure is that Vader wanted it big time, and that Luke was trying to stop him (and a certain amount of romance developed between Lea and Luke).
I'll reread it and try to find a good, and accurate, description of what it does.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-22 12:49pm

Now that we know Luke and Leia were siblings, romance between them seems so wrong.

LaserRifleofDoom · Post by **LaserRifleofDoom** » 2005-06-22 05:09pm

First off, the sheer number of inaccuracies in that book would lead me to put it very low on the cannon scale.

But as far as the Kaiburr crystal goes, it wouldn't matter in this context. Apparently it only affects Force-users. Luke felt its power immediately when he picked the shard up, but the imperial commander held it and thought it was just a glowing crystal.
-----
I haven't read any of the other descriptions of force-crystals, so here are some descriptions of it for comparison:

Splinter of the Mind's Eye, 1978 wrote:what they saw was a splinter of something that looked like red glass and glowed softly. The color was deeper, richer than red corundum. It has a vitreous luster resembleing crystalized honey

That's the shard, the whole thing was described as as big as a person's head, and glowing.

Some descriptions of its effects:

But the sensations that coursed through him did not come from his finger, were not carried by the nerves in his skin...
[Luke speaking] "increases on's perception of the Force. It magnifies and clarifies... in proportion to its size and density, I think."

Back cover wrote: Hidden on this planet was the Kaiburr crystal, a mysterious gem that would give the one who possessed it such powers over the Force that he would be all but invincible. In the wrong hands, the treasure could be deadly.

...able to give his priests the ability to perform miraculous feats. Healing the sick and stuff like that... it'll become a force for destruction, not healing

A basic synopsis of the crystal.
1) Stronger connection with the force
2) healing power granted to user
3) UNLIMITED POWER!!!111!!!1!

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-22 05:20pm

As far as I know, Splinter in the Mind's Eye is non-continuity. Its not listed on any of the the novel time line list seen in more recent novels, and I dont believe it is ever referenced in the Essential Guides or other sources.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2005-06-22 06:07pm

Interesting that the Kaiburr crystal is a lightsaber crytal in KOTOR 2. It boosts several stats, IIRC.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2005-06-23 03:14am

The Force is a fundamental function of reality in the Star Wars universe, if I'm not mistaken; at the very least, it's a function of organic life in that universe. If it exists and follows set properties, then it can be analyzed and studied - and if it can be manipulated by an organic lifeform, then there must be some method by which mechanical means can be used to manipulate it.

4-LOM can become a Force-using droid, if and only if he manages to somehow 'hook in' to the energy field. How would he do so? Fuck if I know. But there must be some way to do it.

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-23 09:35am

Doubtful, no one, organic or otherwise, has ever managed to tap into the Force (in the canon and quasi-canon universe) without already being a Force User. In order to be a Force user, you have to have midichlorians. In order to have midichlorians, you have to be organic.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2005-06-23 12:05pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:Doubtful, no one, organic or otherwise, has ever managed to tap into the Force (in the canon and quasi-canon universe) without already being a Force User. In order to be a Force user, you have to have midichlorians. In order to have midichlorians, you have to be organic.

If the Force is physical rather than metaphysical, then the midichlorians must be doing something within the realm of physical possiblity in order to tap into the Force. If something can be done by an organic creature, then it can be duplicated by technology (or in the worst case, biotech) once an understanding of it has been achieved - and sometimes before.

If the Force is metaphysical, however, then the whole midichlorians thing goes out the window, and the question becomes the nature of connection with the Force, and whether a droid has a "soul" (or whatever else it is that Star Wars characters have).

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-23 12:40pm

The exact relationship between midichlorians and the Force is not really known. But you need them in sufficient quantities to be a Force User. And every piece of machinery added to an organic creature lowers its Force sensitivity. A machine simply cannot use the Force.

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2005-06-23 01:04pm

Trooper TK12746 wrote:The exact relationship between midichlorians and the Force is not really known. But you need them in sufficient quantities to be a Force User. And every piece of machinery added to an organic creature lowers its Force sensitivity. A machine simply cannot use the Force.

You keep ignoring Dark Empire 2. Not only are there two cases of non-Force sensitives becoming Force users in there, but there's also Empatojayos Brand, who is likely more machine than man, yet his control and knowledge of the Force seems to not have suffered at all because of his condition.

And what's your problem with regular people becoming Force users, anyway? Qui-Gon says in TPM that midichlorians exists within the cells of all living things. People who do not use the Force are still living things and thus have them. Darth Plagueis was allegedly able to affect the midichlorians to create life, so why should it be so impossible to affect them to create Force potential instead?

Trooper TK12746 · Post by **Trooper TK12746** » 2005-06-24 09:27am

You need sufficient quantities of midichlorians to become a force user, not just have midichlorians.

In Dark Empire, the EMpire made two of his dark Jedi extensions of his will. He made them conduits for his power, he didn't give them power of their own.

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » 2005-06-24 09:42am

As far as I could gather from Qui-Gon's midichlorian spiel before my brain collapsed was that the midichlorians let people "hear" the will of the Force and allow them to use the Force. Everyone has them, but you need enough of them to hear over the background din of your mind, or some such. As to non-Force users becoming Force users, it's happened. The Jedi Knight series of games has it occuring, and those are canon (unless something contradicts it that I haven't read, which, outside of most of the PT stuff, isn't very much).

Theoretically, 4-LOM's mind could be recorded in much the way people who are being cloned have their minds scanned and recorded, then implanted in a new body and given Force sensitivity, either by tinkering with his midichlorians or giving him a dip in the Valley of the Jedi. He would cease to be a machine, but he'd be 4-LOM in essence and experience. I don't know whether you could somehow graft organic components onto him (a la Data in FC?) to allow him to feel the force.