Least professionally competent leaders and officers

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-11-23 02:16am

Of all the officers and leaders in the sci-fi and SF multiverse, which most deserve to be removed from office or put infront of a firing squad for incompetence, professional malpractice, or simply gross stupidity?

To keep this from being a nothing but a Voyager bashing thread, Janeway's incompetence is taken as a given. There's no need to discuss her faults any further.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-11-23 02:24am

Sheriden. He was clearly suffering from a God complex before the ISA formed, and then when he won power, notice how all the top jobes were taken be his 'friends' and associates. A clear case of nepotism. I mean he had an alcoholic and a 'security guard' as the head of intelligence for fucks sakes! Where was the democratic accountability in that? Especially considering how the ISA was formed after Sheriden toppled his own government on charges of un-democratic behaivour!

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-23 02:24am

Senator Mackenzie(sp) from Stargate Sg-1. He thinks that if aliens come down to kill everybody on Earth, God will save us. He's a fucking moron.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-23 02:27am

Crown wrote:Sheriden. He was clearly suffering from a God complex before the ISA formed, and then when he won power, notice how all the top jobes were taken be his 'friends' and associates. A clear case of nepotism. I mean he had an alcoholic and a 'security guard' as the head of intelligence for fucks sakes! Where was the democratic accountability in that? Especially considering how the ISA was formed after Sheriden toppled his own government on charges of un-democratic behaivour!

Wasn't Garibaldi a former alcoholic? I haven't seen any of Babylon 5 except for season 1 (thank god TV1 is getting season 2 in december) so I don't know about Sheridans antics.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-23 02:27am

The High Ridge government in the Honorverse. They're in a state of declared war and DECREASE the size of their navy. They fire the officers that won the battles. They stop all naval construction. They cut off all contact with their HumInt sources within the enemy's structure. Doesn't get much stupider than that.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-23 02:37am

Vympel wrote:
Crown wrote:Sheriden. He was clearly suffering from a God complex before the ISA formed, and then when he won power, notice how all the top jobes were taken be his 'friends' and associates. A clear case of nepotism. I mean he had an alcoholic and a 'security guard' as the head of intelligence for fucks sakes! Where was the democratic accountability in that? Especially considering how the ISA was formed after Sheriden toppled his own government on charges of un-democratic behaivour!
Wasn't Garibaldi a former alcoholic? I haven't seen any of Babylon 5 except for season 1 (thank god TV1 is getting season 2 in december) so I don't know about Sheridans antics.

Yes. But he later fell back into drinking and ended up fucking up in his duties as head of intel.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-11-23 02:40am

Ah k. Damn I just copped a spoiler. Fucking TV1 ... replaying the first season of Babylon 5 for ages now.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-23 02:47am

Daala was beyond stupid.

Isard was pretty bad. She might have been fine at clever tactics and strategies but when it came to the normal day to day stuff that really wins the war she fucked up constantly, though her subordinates seemed to be quite aware of it.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-11-23 02:51am

Cartoon G1 Megatron.

Never throughout the command quagmire of voyager did Janeway ever get within an order of magnitude of the stupdidity that this "leader" displayed.

G1 Megatron is Janeway raised to the power of borg queen..... Janeway ^borg queen

In every single episode of the series, he had at least 2 opportunities (per episode) to actually win the entire war. Not just a battle. Not just a strategical victory. the whole fucking thing.

He squandered it in MTMTE, the squandered it in Key to Vector Sigma. He squandered it in Fire in the Sky, he squandered it in the movie.

He constantly fails to achieve even the most menial of victories and then flies away screaming "I shall be avenged".

Translation: "I'm going to go tell my dad"

His idiocy caused the following:

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that lead the poorly planned attack on autobot city, and although he possessed every advantage, he lost the battle.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that didn't kill the autobots when he had a chance.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused him to order the decepticons to go around turning trees into metal trees.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that made him send THE AUTOBOT AERIALBOTS BACK IN TIME. I'm sure he thought that they wouldn't mess with the timeline contrary to him at all....

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused him to call a reteat after getting tossed in mud during the "Utlimate Doom"

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused him to not use some of the marvelous shield technology he used on the stunticons.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that he didn't raid a several car dealerships and double the size of his army overnight as he did with the stunticons

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that he never actually had a plan except for "Kill Optimus Prime" And that took him several million years. So let's see. At this rate he should conquer the universe in about ohhhh.....NEVER.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused his treacherous subordinate to toss him out into a vacuum and left for dead.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy which caused him to let the human go-between between the autobots and humanity actually LIVE.

It was G1 Megatron's idiocy that caused him to LOOSE THE WAR.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-23 02:51am

Vympel wrote:Ah k. Damn I just copped a spoiler. Fucking TV1 ... replaying the first season of Babylon 5 for ages now.

Honestly looking back I think Sheridan did okay as president. His choices were friends, but they were also highly competent and trustworthy. Garibaldi was a fluke and Sheridan didn't know he had started drinking again. Garibaldi did have plenty of contacts and was a good intelligence officer.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-11-23 03:47am

Crown wrote:Sheriden. He was clearly suffering from a God complex before the ISA formed, and then when he won power, notice how all the top jobes were taken be his 'friends' and associates.

Better hope non of the Fivers read this thread or it's going to turn into--in the words of one of SD's trolls--'a giant flaming pit of flames.'

No argument that Sheridan had all the competence of a bishop in a BDSM party house. In his defense, however, the only high-level leaders in B5 who were even remotely competent were Clarke and Londo. The rest of them were pretty clueless at the best of times. Comparitively speaking Sheridan wasn't much worse than his peers on the 'good guy' side; his ineptitude was IMO more a matter of JMS' overall lack of knowledge rather than any specific problem related to Sheridan.

I don't know if it's really fair to paint Sheridan personally as a moron when the real problems with the ISA leadership come from so many directions that the real blame can only be attributed to JMS' utter failure to comprehend the scope involved with running a nation. In contrast to someone like Janeway--who's inept even by the standards set in her own universe by the likes of Kirk, Picard, and Sisko--Sheridan's ineptitude is much more a matter of the B5 universe itself being ineptly designed rather than any personal fault of his own.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2002-11-23 03:59am

Hey I like B5 as much as the next guy, but Sheriden just plain pissed me off.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-11-23 04:42am

I am a fiver, but I will not engage in flame, but do tell me, what are the design flaws in Babylon 5? Not as many as Star Trek's I hope.

Worst leader would have to be the guy who run the Space Rangers in Buzz Lightyear(when your bored, you watch cartoons).

Have them act as both a military and a police force, that's kinda stretching your resources.

Never attacks Zerg's home planet or his fleets while he is vulnerable from whatever catastrophe he ends up in.

The whole fleet consists of the same exact ship all docked at one station orbiting the homeworld.

Entire fleet's battle procedure is, get rocket close to enemy, eject entire crew, and have them duke it out in space with their jetpacks and lasers instead of arming th ship itself.

I can't think of anything else. So far......

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-23 04:46am

FaxModem1 wrote:I am a fiver, but I will not engage in flame, but do tell me, what are the design flaws in Babylon 5? Not as many as Star Trek's I hope.

Worst leader would have to be the guy who run the Space Rangers in Buzz Lightyear(when your bored, you watch cartoons).

Have them act as both a military and a police force, that's kinda stretching your resources.

Never attacks Zerg's home planet or his fleets while he is vulnerable from whatever catastrophe he ends up in.

The whole fleet consists of the same exact ship all docked at one station orbiting the homeworld.

Entire fleet's battle procedure is, get rocket close to enemy, eject entire crew, and have them duke it out in space with their jetpacks and lasers instead of arming th ship itself.

I can't think of anything else. So far......

Ah, but you must remember that Zerg loses. It makes him an even bigger incompetent leader.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-23 04:51pm

Cobra Commander is up there. The Klingon high command for their failure to enforce discipline and restrict the use of melee wapons.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-23 05:08pm

The Dark wrote:The High Ridge government in the Honorverse. They're in a state of declared war and DECREASE the size of their navy. They fire the officers that won the battles. They stop all naval construction. They cut off all contact with their HumInt sources within the enemy's structure. Doesn't get much stupider than that.

Indeed, the only one with a shred of brains was completely amoral. And the only one of them near moral shot homself in shame.

It's too bad Beth didn't put all of them against a wall and shoot them. It would certainly have made a very good ending and strike an ominous note given his long term plans for Beth.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2002-11-24 06:54am

Admiral Elvis Santino deserves a mentioning.
Getting his own task force completely blown out of space just because he wanted "to show the flag" to a Peep battlegroup...

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-11-24 06:59am

neoolong wrote:Senator Mackenzie(sp) from Stargate Sg-1. He thinks that if aliens come down to kill everybody on Earth, God will save us. He's a fucking moron.

No, it's not "God will save us", it's "The Almighty United States of America is Invincible."

Fucking moron is too kind.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-24 07:03am

XaLEv wrote:
neoolong wrote:Senator Mackenzie(sp) from Stargate Sg-1. He thinks that if aliens come down to kill everybody on Earth, God will save us. He's a fucking moron.
No, it's not "God will save us", it's "The Almighty United States of America is Invincible."

Fucking moron is too kind.

Actually he says in Politics from Season 1 that God wouldn't let anything happen to the U.S.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-11-24 07:13am

neoolong wrote:
XaLEv wrote:
neoolong wrote:Senator Mackenzie(sp) from Stargate Sg-1. He thinks that if aliens come down to kill everybody on Earth, God will save us. He's a fucking moron.
No, it's not "God will save us", it's "The Almighty United States of America is Invincible."

Fucking moron is too kind.
Actually he says in Politics from Season 1 that God wouldn't let anything happen to the U.S.

I must have missed that. Well, both then. IIRC, he once said that if the Goa'uld invaded, they would regret facing the US military.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-11-24 07:16am

Well, I think we can both agree that he is an utter moron.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2002-11-24 07:36am

The humans of the Xeelee universe range very high on the moron scale.
After assimilating other species and technologies they thought they have to go against the Xeelee, since as arrogant as humans go, since they thought the Xeelee were their arch-enemy.
In the end it led to complete incarceration of humanity.
The ultimate hubris...

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-11-24 09:08am

Darth Vader, he wasn't professional at all.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-24 12:23pm

Dahak wrote:Admiral Elvis Santino deserves a mentioning.
Getting his own task force completely blown out of space just because he wanted "to show the flag" to a Peep battlegroup...

Yeah, but that's nothing compared to starting a two front war against a superior enemy simply to win an election.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2002-11-24 12:43pm

The Dark wrote:The High Ridge government in the Honorverse. They're in a state of declared war and DECREASE the size of their navy. They fire the officers that won the battles. They stop all naval construction. They cut off all contact with their HumInt sources within the enemy's structure. Doesn't get much stupider than that.

Don't forget putting a bunch of incompetant political lackeys in charge of the military, pissing off their allies, accepting that "surrender" in the first place, and just plain all around stupidity. Also add screwing up negotiations and starting a war just so they could hang on to power in office.