The worst vehicles in the EU

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-06-29 11:44pm

In the grand scheme of things in the SW universe, the Dreadnaught and Lancer work well for the un-star tier of vessels that small sectors or local planetary defense would use. Granted, the EU of these ships tend to suck but that's story line and not necessarily just the ships.

Where the rebel cell or Alderaan could dredge up two squadrons of fighters, a dedicated anti fighter platform like the Lancer makes sense. I feel the same about the Dread too, it's obviously not a front line ship but more a local cruiser of some sort. The Katan Fleet was pure wank though.

The TIE Defender is wank as well. The TIE Avenger was a better design.

But the all time worst design has to be the TIE Crawler. Though the walking city of Lando's on a bunch of ATAT's is a very close second.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2005-06-29 11:56pm

Knife wrote:Though the walking city of Lando's on a bunch of ATAT's is a very close second.

Oh..Oh PLEASE Tell me this is a Joke!!!

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-06-30 12:05am

Crossroads Inc. wrote:
Knife wrote:Though the walking city of Lando's on a bunch of ATAT's is a very close second.
Oh..Oh PLEASE Tell me this is a Joke!!!

Nope. Tis the book (can't remember which one at the moment) where they needed a 'shield ship' to get them to the planet since it was sooooo close to the local sun.

The city, mining city or what ever, was built with ATAT legs attached or IIRC the whole vehicle, so that it constantly moved away from sunrise. It was retarded.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-06-30 12:14am

You sure? EGtP&M illustrated Nomad City with treads.

The Jazz Intern · Post by **The Jazz Intern** » 2005-06-30 12:29am

What?! Why not just sheild the area... Never Mind. Even an Idiot of my caliber knows the stupidity here. Hey, has anyone seen these? They may be fan made, but I just wanted to make sure...

http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~ao ... e/Imperial

Note: won't work with firefox, you have to use Internet explorer.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-06-30 12:37am

Oh yeah, did i mention the Eclipse sucks? The sea-going type prow is incredibly ugly.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-06-30 12:42am

The Eclipse isn't so bad, but I do think it would've looked better with a limited spine like the Soveriegn.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-30 12:44am

Nope. Tis the book (can't remember which one at the moment) where they needed a 'shield ship' to get them to the planet since it was sooooo close to the local sun.

The city, mining city or what ever, was built with ATAT legs attached or IIRC the whole vehicle, so that it constantly moved away from sunrise. It was retarded.

What was so stupid about that?

Kenoshi · Post by **Kenoshi** » 2005-06-30 01:25am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Eclipse isn't so bad, but I do think it would've looked better with a limited spine like the Soveriegn.

Seems like a waste of resources making one huge ass ship like the Eclipse instead of making a bunch of smaller, more versitile ships. Sure, a giant supership is going to make a hell of a fashion statement and it will certainly impress the guests, not to mention any worlds you happen to be conquering, but in the end you're just providing a big juicy target for your enemies to blow up.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-06-30 01:28am

Kenoshi wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Eclipse isn't so bad, but I do think it would've looked better with a limited spine like the Soveriegn.
Seems like a waste of resources making one huge ass ship like the Eclipse instead of making a bunch of smaller, more versitile ships. Sure, a giant supership is going to make a hell of a fashion statement and it will certainly impress the guests, not to mention any worlds you happen to be conquering, but in the end you're just providing a big juicy target for your enemies to blow up.

And you're wrong. Evidence suggests economics, industrial production, and balance between warships favors larger designs strongly.

An Executor-class masses over 100 times that of an ISD, but it'll take many hundreds of ISDs (maybe even a thousand) to successfully overpower it, and costs only twenty times as much. The Death Star massed in millions of ISDs, and its firepower was equivalent to perhaps many more millions. But it is said to be worth only twenty Sector Groups.

Think about it; has a battle-ready Super Star Destroyer or multi-kilometer leviathan of any type ever been genuinely overpowered in a battle royale by the good guys? How often really? Usually it comes down to a weakened example, dumb luck, and other extenuating factors.

The Eclipse and its successor certainly weren't stopped by the NRDF.

Aquatain · Post by **Aquatain** » 2005-06-30 04:20am

An Executor-class masses over 100 times that of an ISD, but it'll take many hundreds of ISDs (maybe even a thousand) to successfully overpower it, and costs only twenty times as much. The Death Star massed in millions of ISDs, and its firepower was equivalent to perhaps many more millions. But it is said to be worth only twenty Sector Groups.

If this was true then the Executor should have been able to wipe out the entire Rebel fleet at endor quite easy.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2005-06-30 04:35am

The Executor probably could of. Notice how Palpatine decided the Death Star was going to do it?

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-06-30 04:42am

Aquatain wrote:
An Executor-class masses over 100 times that of an ISD, but it'll take many hundreds of ISDs (maybe even a thousand) to successfully overpower it, and costs only twenty times as much. The Death Star massed in millions of ISDs, and its firepower was equivalent to perhaps many more millions. But it is said to be worth only twenty Sector Groups.
If this was true then the Executor should have been able to wipe out the entire Rebel fleet at endor quite easy.

That's probably where the "dumb luck and extenuating factors" he talks about is supposed to come in, although I personally think its a weak rationalization at best (albeit neccessary, given that few will be willing to seriously argue the Executor is underpowered/under-shielded for its size.)

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2005-06-30 06:55am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:An Executor-class masses over 100 times that of an ISD, but it'll take many hundreds of ISDs (maybe even a thousand) to successfully overpower it, and costs only twenty times as much. The Death Star massed in millions of ISDs, and its firepower was equivalent to perhaps many more millions. But it is said to be worth only twenty Sector Groups.

The Rebel Fleet in Endor sure as hell was not the equivalent to "many hundreds of ISDs" and they still were giving the Executor a good beating. The loss of the bridge and crashing against the Death Star factor the dumb luck, but doesn't change the lose of the bridge shields.

Think about it; has a battle-ready Super Star Destroyer or multi-kilometer leviathan of any type ever been genuinely overpowered in a battle royale by the good guys?

Yes. The Executor in the only instance where it faced somewhat serious opposition. Of course, it wasn't fighting back, but its shields can't in any way take the firepower of "hundreds" of ISDs.

Aquatain · Post by **Aquatain** » 2005-06-30 10:33am

That's probably where the "dumb luck and extenuating factors" he talks about is supposed to come in, although I personally think its a weak rationalization at best (albeit neccessary, given that few will be willing to seriously argue the Executor is underpowered/under-shielded for its size.)

A explanation could be that the a-wings did in fact detstroy the shield generator of the executor, though it's hardly a popular explanation.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-06-30 12:53pm

Murazor wrote:The Rebel Fleet in Endor sure as hell was not the equivalent to "many hundreds of ISDs" and they still were giving the Executor a good beating. The loss of the bridge and crashing against the Death Star factor the dumb luck, but doesn't change the lose of the bridge shields.

That was, I'd remind you, after a concentrated bombardment on bridge at close range and Force knows how many of the ROTJ ramships (see novel; presumably the rammings occurred while we were forced to watch the ground battle). Between KE (plus associated momentum) and M/AM warhead, ramships can be highly dangerous...

Quickie case in point, when they rammed three Star Destroyers equivalent into the ship, it took out the shield.

Yes. The Executor in the only instance where it faced somewhat serious opposition. Of course, it wasn't fighting back, but its shields can't in any way take the firepower of "hundreds" of ISDs.

The majority of the problem is the sheer speed at which a fighting Executor would annihilate the opposing small ships (the speed at which big ships annihilate small ships is so logical even EU authors see it when they aren't putting Main Character Shields on their heroes' ships). That means the firepower its opposition could bring on is reduced at a drastic rate.

In an all out firepower slinging battle, you'd want at least enough ships so when the Executor loses shields (so you can get onto eliminating its guns), you match it in firepower. The reason is that the Executor can still focus so much firepower your destroyer's shields are merely statistical in its face (almost like a Fed ship vs ISD).

That means you just evened out the situation to one where you can reduce the firepower aimed at you. He can still continue eliminate your firepower by blowing up your destroyers.

Of course, this is a simplistic analysis with only firepower and shielding, but this is the ballpark.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2005-06-30 02:27pm

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:That was, I'd remind you, after a concentrated bombardment on bridge at close range and Force knows how many of the ROTJ ramships (see novel; presumably the rammings occurred while we were forced to watch the ground battle). Between KE (plus associated momentum) and M/AM warhead, ramships can be highly dangerous...

Quickie case in point, when they rammed three Star Destroyers equivalent into the ship, it took out the shield.

Doesn't this contradict the "kitchen sink" system supported by the ICS that states that the shields get rid of X ammount of energy in Y ammount of time (wattage threshold)? This is an honest question. If the Executor shields are supposed to work in a different fashion, now is the first time I hear about it.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-06-30 03:00pm

Murazor wrote:Doesn't this contradict the "kitchen sink" system supported by the ICS that states that the shields get rid of X ammount of energy in Y ammount of time (wattage threshold)? This is an honest question. If the Executor shields are supposed to work in a different fashion, now is the first time I hear about it.

I don't think so. I'd like to answer your question in more detail, but my 3AM brain is quite unable to figure out exactly where your objection is.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-06-30 03:13pm

Murazor wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:An Executor-class masses over 100 times that of an ISD, but it'll take many hundreds of ISDs (maybe even a thousand) to successfully overpower it, and costs only twenty times as much. The Death Star massed in millions of ISDs, and its firepower was equivalent to perhaps many more millions. But it is said to be worth only twenty Sector Groups.
The Rebel Fleet in Endor sure as hell was not the equivalent to "many hundreds of ISDs" and they still were giving the Executor a good beating. The loss of the bridge and crashing against the Death Star factor the dumb luck, but doesn't change the lose of the bridge shields.

Think about it; has a battle-ready Super Star Destroyer or multi-kilometer leviathan of any type ever been genuinely overpowered in a battle royale by the good guys?
Yes. The Executor in the only instance where it faced somewhat serious opposition. Of course, it wasn't fighting back, but its shields can't in any way take the firepower of "hundreds" of ISDs.

I'm not talking about the shields, stupid. I'm talking about having enough ships to realistically weather the stupifyingly enormous salvos the Executor can wield and still batter her into submission. The Executor wasn't fighting back, so its irrelevent.

Trolic_1 · Post by **Trolic_1** » 2005-06-30 05:14pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Aquatain wrote:
An Executor-class masses over 100 times that of an ISD, but it'll take many hundreds of ISDs (maybe even a thousand) to successfully overpower it, and costs only twenty times as much. The Death Star massed in millions of ISDs, and its firepower was equivalent to perhaps many more millions. But it is said to be worth only twenty Sector Groups.
If this was true then the Executor should have been able to wipe out the entire Rebel fleet at endor quite easy.
That's probably where the "dumb luck and extenuating factors" he talks about is supposed to come in, although I personally think its a weak rationalization at best (albeit neccessary, given that few will be willing to seriously argue the Executor is underpowered/under-shielded for its size.)

this link has some good info on SSd size and abilities

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html

I belive the SSD is under powered for its size But, I have read that it was not ment to take on whole fleets by it's self but to assist fleets in extended engagements. It has ship repair yards it can deploy, carries and enormous amout of supply's allowing the fleet to move faster then a fleet using dedicated supply vessels. Its rated power in the books (I think) makes it better then 30-40 ISD's in one battle while it has a crew of 250,000 while each ISD has 16,000-50,000, so for the power you get you are lowering the crew needed although I agree we never saw the Imperials lacking for manning. Also consider its intimidation factor, if a ISD Mark I showed up in your home system you might deside to fight it with a few squadrons of fighters but what if one of these (an SSD) showed up? Remember Tarkin was going to use the original death star to bring the rebellion in line with it's awsome size and power (and yes the threat of blowing up worlds). but my point is While it is under powered for ship to ship combat for its size it more then makes up for it in the other roles it fulfills.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-06-30 05:40pm

Trolic_1 wrote:this link has some good info on SSd size and abilities

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html

... You do know that everyone here is well aware of Dr. Saxton's site, yes?

Trolic_1 · Post by **Trolic_1** » 2005-06-30 05:51pm

Firefox wrote:
Trolic_1 wrote:this link has some good info on SSd size and abilities

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html
... You do know that everyone here is well aware of Dr. Saxton's site, yes?

This was in reply to the question on the size and firepower of a SSD and yes I assumed this site was known since I found the link on this site. I just wanted to refer people to someone who can explane himself better then me.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2005-06-30 05:52pm

Knife wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:
Knife wrote:Though the walking city of Lando's on a bunch of ATAT's is a very close second.
Oh..Oh PLEASE Tell me this is a Joke!!!
Nope. Tis the book (can't remember which one at the moment) where they needed a 'shield ship' to get them to the planet since it was sooooo close to the local sun.

The city, mining city or what ever, was built with ATAT legs attached or IIRC the whole vehicle, so that it constantly moved away from sunrise. It was retarded.

It's even worse than that. Nomad City is literally a dildo Dreadnaught being carried on the backs of 40 full AT-ATs.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:You sure? EGtP&M illustrated Nomad City with treads.

The Essential Guides suck, and the artist probably didn't even read the book.

Firefox · Post by **Firefox** » 2005-06-30 05:54pm

Trolic_1 wrote:This was in reply to the question on the size and firepower of a SSD and yes I assumed this site was known since I found the link on this site. I just wanted to refer people to someone who can explane himself better then me.

I know that, but it seems you believe people such as Connor are ignorant of Saxton's writings on the subject.

Trolic_1 · Post by **Trolic_1** » 2005-06-30 06:04pm

Firefox wrote:
Trolic_1 wrote:This was in reply to the question on the size and firepower of a SSD and yes I assumed this site was known since I found the link on this site. I just wanted to refer people to someone who can explane himself better then me.
I know that, but it seems you believe people such as Connor are ignorant of Saxton's writings on the subject.

I was supporting him and refered other readers to another source that would support him also.