Warhammer 40K ships

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-23 04:25pm

NecronLord wrote:Supposedly they were designed for the 3rd edition and retro-fitted into second. Hence the sickly uberness in 2nd when a scarab could immobilise a tank.

That might explain the curious evolution into the disgustingly overpowered 2nd Ed army...though I'm still none too thrilled by 3rd Ed Necrons, personally. Invariably whenever someone new gets introduced to the system, they go "Space Marines, Necrons, Tau, sweet!" The Tau aren't so terribly bad, mind you, but I'm still grouchy because those blue-skinned bastards took away the Imperial Guard's "Shooty Gits" title. *mutter*in all, they're probably the most tolerable of the three...but you didn't hear that from me.

Of course, in my experience, each time I introduce someone to the game, they invariably pick up Eldar. Not that I mind though, all the more practice for me.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-11-23 05:49pm

NecronLord wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Clearly the fact that when they first appeared it was stated they would eventually be a proper army with codex and everything passed you by?
That's not how I remember them being introduced, but I could well be wrong. Do you remember the specific issue where they made their first appearance?
not offhand it was slightly befor the 3rd edition. Came with a necron.

I can vouch for this...I too got a free Necron..

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-23 06:14pm

Question, does 40K have any troops like Star Wars Spacetroopers, basically powered armor for space combat? I'm aware of the wide range of ground armor.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-23 06:19pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Question, does 40K have any troops like Star Wars Spacetroopers, basically powered armor for space combat? I'm aware of the wide range of ground armor.

They have boarding shuttles and teleporters for boarding actions. They transport ground troops into the enemy ship. Closest you'll find is Terminatory Power Armor, I'm afraid.

Of course, I always thought the Chaos had an especially interesting method of boarding. Throw some troops in a torpedo and launch 'em at the other ship.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-11-23 06:46pm

Don't the Orks do that too

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-23 06:49pm

Hotfoot wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:Question, does 40K have any troops like Star Wars Spacetroopers, basically powered armor for space combat? I'm aware of the wide range of ground armor.
They have boarding shuttles and teleporters for boarding actions. They transport ground troops into the enemy ship. Closest you'll find is Terminatory Power Armor, I'm afraid.

Of course, I always thought the Chaos had an especially interesting method of boarding. Throw some troops in a torpedo and launch 'em at the other ship.

Sounds like what Thawn tired with the mole miners. If you send them in as part of a larger salvo it might be pretty effective, since shuttles would likely draw a damn lot of fire.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-23 06:59pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:Question, does 40K have any troops like Star Wars Spacetroopers, basically powered armor for space combat? I'm aware of the wide range of ground armor.

Space Marine powered armor is self-contained power armor.

Tactical Dreadnought Armor (Terminator Armor) is even more powerful, being somewhere equivalent to a miniature battleframe.

And Hotfoot, I'm sorry if you don't like Necrons, Tau or Smurfs. I, however, do. And Orks too. I can safely say that the Ork Codex was the most entertaining (and probably enlightened) I have ever read.

" The orcs are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a socirty which knows no stress or angst.Who are we to judge the,? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their own turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a strong culture, and despis it as crude. "
- Uthan the Perverse (would be .sig material but it's too long

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-23 07:08pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:And Hotfoot, I'm sorry if you don't like Necrons, Tau or Smurfs. I, however, do. And Orks too. I can safely say that the Ork Codex was the most entertaining (and probably enlightened) I have ever read.

Orks I got no problems with...well, at least from a gaming point of view. Obviously as a resolute Imperial Commander I think they should be wiped out from existance.

As for the rest, it's not your fault. It's my own personal opinion. I don't like them, for a couple of reasons, most of which are gameplay-related. It's not an irrational dislike for the most part, and I can be reasoned with on the subject, to a degree. However, any amount of surprise from the Necrons being more Uber than the Eldar I find quite shocking, as I regularly lay waste to Eldar forces with the greatest of ease (okay, exaggerating, but regardless, they're not as evil as some would have you think).

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-23 07:15pm

Hotfoot wrote:
Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:And Hotfoot, I'm sorry if you don't like Necrons, Tau or Smurfs. I, however, do. And Orks too. I can safely say that the Ork Codex was the most entertaining (and probably enlightened) I have ever read.
Orks I got no problems with...well, at least from a gaming point of view. Obviously as a resolute Imperial Commander I think they should be wiped out from existance.

As for the rest, it's not your fault. It's my own personal opinion. I don't like them, for a couple of reasons, most of which are gameplay-related. It's not an irrational dislike for the most part, and I can be reasoned with on the subject, to a degree. However, any amount of surprise from the Necrons being more Uber than the Eldar I find quite shocking, as I regularly lay waste to Eldar forces with the greatest of ease (okay, exaggerating, but regardless, they're not as evil as some would have you think).

I know this Eldar fanatic who insists all Eldar units should be like the fluff (minor fanboy, can be defeated with decent logic) and the NEcrons are just the thing to shut him up.

And the Necrons... well, they are pretty damn sinister -looking, but I still think the Monolith is waaaay too overpowered, 235 points for a skim-capable Land Raider which can fire D6 shots at EACH target? I mean if it were D6 shots TOTAL it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is everything within 12" of a Monolith is in severe danger of death by flensing. Not to mention the Pariah, the ultimate CC unit. Directly wounds, no need for armor save. I can see how beardy some players can become.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-23 07:38pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:I know this Eldar fanatic who insists all Eldar units should be like the fluff (minor fanboy, can be defeated with decent logic) and the NEcrons are just the thing to shut him up.

And the Necrons... well, they are pretty damn sinister -looking, but I still think the Monolith is waaaay too overpowered, 235 points for a skim-capable Land Raider which can fire D6 shots at EACH target? I mean if it were D6 shots TOTAL it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is everything within 12" of a Monolith is in severe danger of death by flensing. Not to mention the Pariah, the ultimate CC unit. Directly wounds, no need for armor save. I can see how beardy some players can become.

Yeah, the monolith especially is one of my gripes. And you know they'll howl and scream if it gets nerfed in any way, but hey, I have a simple solution that solves (almost) all my problems. I don't play beardy players.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-23 07:56pm

I actually prefer Tau. Tau are decently balanced and they are not kings of shooty. IG still have that title. Tau have a lot less heavy weapon platforms than IG do, IMO. Plus IG can use Catachans which makes them into SMurfs without the armor.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-23 08:00pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:I actually prefer Tau. Tau are decently balanced and they are not kings of shooty. IG still have that title. Tau have a lot less heavy weapon platforms than IG do, IMO. Plus IG can use Catachans which makes them into SMurfs without the armor.

Meh, basic Tau trooper has longer range and better BS, IIRC. The basic infantry unit is the primary driving force behind what defines an army. Tau can sit back and unload into IG from afar while IG has to try and get in range to shoot back.

Also, for CC, I prefer Rough Riders, but that's just me.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-23 08:01pm

Hotfoot wrote:
Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:I actually prefer Tau. Tau are decently balanced and they are not kings of shooty. IG still have that title. Tau have a lot less heavy weapon platforms than IG do, IMO. Plus IG can use Catachans which makes them into SMurfs without the armor.
Meh, basic Tau trooper has longer range and better BS, IIRC. The basic infantry unit is the primary driving force behind what defines an army. Tau can sit back and unload into IG from afar while IG has to try and get in range to shoot back.

Also, for CC, I prefer Rough Riders, but that's just me.

Better BS? Don't think so. And they cost a whole lot more.

Neko_Oni · Post by **Neko_Oni** » 2002-11-23 08:02pm

We all know where Necrons came from...Space Hulk!
The little android guys you beat on your way to finding the Dreadnought and tearing it a new one.

p.s. I don't like Necrons cause they came along and interfered with the Eldar's fluff.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-23 08:04pm

Gah, no edit.

Tau actually have LOWER WS than IG soldiers. And they cost 10pts per model (6-12 men per squad), +10pts more to upgrade one to a Shas'ui while IG squads cost 60 pts for ten men (one a sarge). Geddit?

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-11-24 04:59am

And the Necrons... well, they are pretty damn sinister -looking, but I still think the Monolith is waaaay too overpowered, 235 points for a skim-capable Land Raider which can fire D6 shots at EACH target? I mean if it were D6 shots TOTAL it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is everything within 12" of a Monolith is in severe danger of death by flensing. Not to mention the Pariah, the ultimate CC unit. Directly wounds, no need for armor save. I can see how beardy some players can become.

I guess you wont be happy to hear about the Harvester MBT the Necrons are getting.

I feel no sympathy for those who bitch about Monoliths...sure they are big mean and nasty, but they are GIGANTIC targets and basically, if ones on the board you can hit it..

As an Iron Warriors player, I have absolutely no problems with my opponents using Monoliths...or C'tan for that matter..

I know this Eldar fanatic who insists all Eldar units should be like the fluff

to that I would just reply, "Well, only if my Space Marines are fluffed"

That should probably shut him up...

Sounds like what Thawn tired with the mole miners. If you send them in as part of a larger salvo it might be pretty effective, since shuttles would likely draw a damn lot of fire.

They usually are launched pretty close in, they are well armoured and spiky...Dreadclaw assault pods rule..

Imperial navy commanders tend to shit themselves when they see these bastards coming at them

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-11-24 11:30am

white_rabbit wrote:
And the Necrons... well, they are pretty damn sinister -looking, but I still think the Monolith is waaaay too overpowered, 235 points for a skim-capable Land Raider which can fire D6 shots at EACH target? I mean if it were D6 shots TOTAL it wouldn't be so bad, but as it is everything within 12" of a Monolith is in severe danger of death by flensing. Not to mention the Pariah, the ultimate CC unit. Directly wounds, no need for armor save. I can see how beardy some players can become.
I guess you wont be happy to hear about the Harvester MBT the Necrons are getting.

This is news to me. Tell all.

I feel no sympathy for those who bitch about Monoliths...sure they are big mean and nasty, but they are GIGANTIC targets and basically, if ones on the board you can hit it..

so true

As an Iron Warriors player, I have absolutely no problems with my opponents using Monoliths...or C'tan for that matter..

{Raven Guard] IRON WARRIOR DIE DIE DIE KILL IT!!!![/Raven Guard]

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2002-11-24 12:05pm

This is news to me. Tell all.

Revealed by the Forgeworld guys at Gamesday, it may or may not be based off some of the prelim designs created for the monolith and is going to be a more "killy" type of vehicle...according to Jervis Johnson its name is a hint to what it will do..

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-11-24 01:52pm

ooooo Sounds nasty just what the C`tan need..on a simular note are they going to create a medium tank for Space Marines? They kinda hinted at one thats set sizewise between a Land Raider and a Preadator.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-24 02:05pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:Gah, no edit.

Tau actually have LOWER WS than IG soldiers. And they cost 10pts per model (6-12 men per squad), +10pts more to upgrade one to a Shas'ui while IG squads cost 60 pts for ten men (one a sarge). Geddit?

Yes, their lower WS is a major hinderance should they ever get into hand to hand with a dedicated close combat unit. With Guard, at least I know I'll hit Space Marines just as often as I'll hit Eldar Guardians. That's one of the reasons I don't hate them with a firey passion. However, range 30 Rapid fire (and range 18 assault) basic weapons with AP5 helps to ensure that unless I bushwhack them, I'll have a hard as hell time getting to CC range.

Also, there is no difference between a sergeant and an infantryman, except that the damn stupid metal models usually come with a pistol and CC weapon to show off "hey, this is a sergeant!" I prefer to keep the non-coms (and the regular officers) meshed invisibly into my ranks of infantry, meaning they all get lasguns.

Also, their vehicles get a on optional +1 BS for 5 points. Oddly enough, this is not something I would want for the IG. In fact, I think it would be a terrible thing for the IG to have (it would kick ass, but it wouldn't make much sense). However, I personally think it should be an option for the Eldar tanks (and maybe even War Walkers) to have a boosted BS.

Tau will eventually move out of my "Pit 'o Shame", once my pride has had time enough to recover, and I've developed some killer Anti-Tau IG army lists. Problem is I'm used to being the shooty king, and I'll have to resort to a lot more CC than usual to really bring down the Tau.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-24 02:24pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:ooooo Sounds nasty just what the C`tan need..on a simular note are they going to create a medium tank for Space Marines? They kinda hinted at one thats set sizewise between a Land Raider and a Preadator.

Something between a Land Raider and a Predator? I smell a Leman Russ clone coming on. I mean, the Predator already is a medium tank by my standards. Anything more would be a Leman Russ.

Predator:
13/11/10

Leman Russ:
14/12/10 (primary variant)
14/12/11 (Conquerer)
14/13/11 (Demolisher)

Land Raider:
14/14/14

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-24 09:32pm

Hotfoot wrote:
Typhonis 1 wrote:ooooo Sounds nasty just what the C`tan need..on a simular note are they going to create a medium tank for Space Marines? They kinda hinted at one thats set sizewise between a Land Raider and a Preadator.
Something between a Land Raider and a Predator? I smell a Leman Russ clone coming on. I mean, the Predator already is a medium tank by my standards. Anything more would be a Leman Russ.

Predator:
13/11/10

Leman Russ:
14/12/10 (primary variant)
14/12/11 (Conquerer)
14/13/11 (Demolisher)

Land Raider:
14/14/14

13/13/13 with a lascannon, a plasma cannon, fast tank that carries 10 SMurfs.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-24 09:44pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:13/13/13 with a lascannon, a plasma cannon, fast tank that carries 10 SMurfs.

Ah. Land Raider Lite, then. Color me excited. Still not really what I'd call a medium though...but hey, if they can call a Predator a light tank, I suppose it fits.

Evil Sadistic Bastard · Post by **Evil Sadistic Bastard** » 2002-11-24 09:45pm

Is a Land Raider really so kickass?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2002-11-24 10:10pm

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:Is a Land Raider really so kickass?

That 14 all around armor can get quite annoying at times, and the usual armament is nothing to sneeze at. (2 Lascannons and a Heavy Bolter that hit on a 3+ with each shot and re-roll any misses) Granted, it's a liability in sub-2000 point battles most of the time, but man, that Crusader version is a bloody menace to infantry.