Qui-Gon Jinn and the Living Force

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-06-30 08:20pm

I'm pretty sure Ajunta Pall is supposed to havae died hundreds or thousands of years even before the events of KotoR. All the tombs in the Valley of the Sith are already considered ancient even during that Revan's time (which is itself supposed to be thousands of years before ANH).

There's also Marka Ragnos, who appears in Jedi Academy. A cult led by Tavion (the late Desann's apprentice) tries to resurrect his body, but in an emergency- the player character Jedi Knight shows up before the resurrection is done- Ragnos instead possesses Tavion.
That same Valley of the Sith looks very different in JA than from KotoR, though.

Like much of the EU, it doesn't gel very well with the movies or make much sense, but it's all in good fun.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-30 08:23pm

Like much of the EU, it doesn't gel very well with the movies or make much sense, but it's all in good fun.

If you try, discrepicies can almost always be reconciled. But, whatever.

That same Valley of the Sith looks very different in JA than from KotoR, though.

That was a certainly a discrepancy, and I guess you could contribute the bareness of the KOTOR model being game mechanics. I like the JA one better.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-06-30 08:30pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Like much of the EU, it doesn't gel very well with the movies or make much sense, but it's all in good fun.

If you try, discrepicies can almost always be reconciled. But, whatever.

That same Valley of the Sith looks very different in JA than from KotoR, though.
That was a certainly a discrepancy, and I guess you could contribute the bareness of the KOTOR model being game mechanics. I like the JA one better.

It is a big valley and there is 4,000 years or so between the games. A lot can happen in that time.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-06-30 08:42pm

It is a big valley and there is 4,000 years or so between the games. A lot can happen in that time.

Thats true, but Marka Ragnos' tomb is in both, and they are quite different. Perhaps the Sith got into architecture over their thousand year disappearance.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-01 04:20am

Ajunta Pall was a much more traditional ghost, trapped in the 'real' world because he felt repentant; If you convince him that he can be forgiven he vanishes.

Marka Ragnos doesn't really apply to this discussion, since Sith seem to have all sorts of ways to cheat death, like the statues Palpy consults in Empire's End.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-07-01 09:08am

Noble Ire wrote:
Like much of the EU, it doesn't gel very well with the movies or make much sense, but it's all in good fun.

If you try, discrepicies can almost always be reconciled. But, whatever.

Head... hurt... noooo..!!

Noble Ire wrote:
That same Valley of the Sith looks very different in JA than from KotoR, though.
That was a certainly a discrepancy, and I guess you could contribute the bareness of the KOTOR model being game mechanics. I like the JA one better.

The Valley of the Sith in JA does indeed look very nice.

I do sometimes kinda wonder if they couldn't have done some sort of hybrid.. an action game on the Quake3 (or newer) engine with a KotoR-strength plot and character interaction.

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-01 11:09am

I thought it was needlessly cartoony, personally. The KotOR one gets my vote.

Activating the SoD field for a minute, considering the extensive damage done to the tomb complex after KotOR (To the point where they'd appearently caved in), it wouldn't surprise me if the next bunch of Sith spruced the area up a bit.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-07-01 01:53pm

Apparently (according to the novel) if you die happy, you can come back as a ghost later. This is what Qui Gon "learned" (notice how loving and stuff he was to Obi-Wan there at the end; notice how Obi-Wan smiled when he died..doesn't explain Yoda, but maybe he was sensing Luke's feelings or something).

So anybody can do it, Qui Gon just put 2 and 2 together and decided to tell somebody.

Why didn't Qui Gon appear in ROTJ? Lucas couldn't talk Liam Neeson into doing it, probably.

Heir to the Empire is what, 13 years after ANH? If indeed Jedi ghosts can't stick around to interact with the living forever, that comes out to about right, since Qui Gon talks to people 13 years after his death. Yoda should be gone 4 years after Obi-Wan goes, and Anakin about that time too.

Then didn't somebody say on here that some of the force ghosts (Anakin or Obi-Wan) talk to people years after HTTE? Maybe it's not a hard and fast rule.

Guess who's coming to dinner? Mace Windu! Hey, blame Star Wars: Infinities writers...

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-01 02:09pm

As stated above, Ani only makes a repeat showing for about a paragraph in Bakura.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2005-07-01 04:35pm

Pcm979 wrote:I thought it was needlessly cartoony, personally.

Cartoony? Surely you're not referring to the Valley of the Sith in Jedi Academy..

I think the best explanation as to why Qui-Gon didn't appear to Luke in RotJ is because he didn't know Luke. Its a simple explanation that makes sense and doesnt' conflict with anything else (I think).

Pcm979 · Post by **Pcm979** » 2005-07-01 04:45pm

Cykeisme wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:I thought it was needlessly cartoony, personally.
Cartoony? Surely you're not referring to the Valley of the Sith in Jedi Academy..

Eh, it's just my opinion.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-07-02 05:27pm

Pcm979 wrote:As stated above, Ani only makes a repeat showing for about a paragraph in Bakura.

Missed that. But Heir to the Empire is like over a decade after ROTJ. Anakin became one with the Force at the end of ROTJ, and Truce at Bakura takes place like immediately after, right?

I think you guys are confusing the Sith Temple/Tombs on the planet Korriban with the Valley of the Jedi. I don't think the Valley is ever shown in Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (only in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight and Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast).

Marka Ragnos's tomb is on Korriban, and that's what you see in JA. However I don't believe the VOTJ's planetary location is actually ever mentioned in any of the games. It's just called the "Lost Planet of the Jedi" in JK1.

JA mentions it, but we never actually see it.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-02 05:31pm

Kurgan wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:As stated above, Ani only makes a repeat showing for about a paragraph in Bakura.
Missed that. But Heir to the Empire is like over a decade after ROTJ. Anakin became one with the Force at the end of ROTJ, and Truce at Bakura takes place like immediately after, right?

It begins about half a day after ROTJ and Anakin shows up after less than a week.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-07-02 05:34pm

Noble Ire wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:As stated above, Ani only makes a repeat showing for about a paragraph in Bakura.
Missed that. But Heir to the Empire is like over a decade after ROTJ. Anakin became one with the Force at the end of ROTJ, and Truce at Bakura takes place like immediately after, right?
It begins about half a day after ROTJ and Anakin shows up after less than a week.

Ok. And this was where Leia tells him off, right?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2005-07-02 05:37pm

Ok. And this was where Leia tells him off, right?

Yup. He appears to her, apologizes for the things he had done as Vader, but she can't accept his redemption yet, so she yells at him, and he disappears.

Srynerson · Post by **Srynerson** » 2005-07-02 06:13pm

Kurgan wrote:
Pcm979 wrote:As stated above, Ani only makes a repeat showing for about a paragraph in Bakura.
Missed that. But Heir to the Empire is like over a decade after ROTJ.

Actually, it's just five years after RotJ: +http://www.myuselessknowledge.com/sw/chronnew13.html

And really, Kurgan, I'm not trying to persecute you about timelines.