Delta Squad Vs Hazard Team

[The Grim Squeaker]

The Delta squad had personal, regenerating shields that could take quite a blasting

[Nephtys]

Hazard team

• 12-15 members (plus possible support from SF security teams)
• relative good protection for the limbs and torso, but no protection for the head as standard

Didn't they have personal shields?

[*]limited tactical skill

Why do they have limited tactical skill?

Delta Squad are actually soldiers, who use covering fire and kill zones to great advantage over their opponents. In Elite Force, the Hazard team's enemies charged at you, and your allies more often than not stood around while Borg were assimilating them very, very slowly...

[Lord Revan]

Hazard team

• 12-15 members (plus possible support from SF security teams)
• relative good protection for the limbs and torso, but no protection for the head as standard

Didn't they have personal shields?

IIRC no, but the armor had nanite based regeneration systems

[*]limited tactical skill

Why do they have limited tactical skill?

as their training is only little above that of a regular Goldshirt (most of that is shoot first and ask later)

[Kamakazie Sith]

Why do they have limited tactical skill?

as their training is only little above that of a regular Goldshirt (most of that is shoot first and ask later)[/quote]

I thought the firefight in the cargo bay of EFI included a briefing and starfleet taking advantage of firing zones, etc.

[The Grim Squeaker]

I thought the firefight in the cargo bay of EFI included a briefing and starfleet taking advantage of firing zones, etc.

They started in high ground and the cover was right by the entrance.

[Lord Revan]

Why do they have limited tactical skill?

as their training is only little above that of a regular Goldshirt (most of that is shoot first and ask later)

I thought the firefight in the cargo bay of EFI included a briefing and starfleet taking advantage of firing zones, etc.[/quote]there's few examples of propper tactics, but there's also examples of Team member getting into each others firing lines and failing to use cover. (the additional training of the Hazard Team, is what they have learned during combat).

[Nephtys]

Why do they have limited tactical skill?

as their training is only little above that of a regular Goldshirt (most of that is shoot first and ask later)

I thought the firefight in the cargo bay of EFI included a briefing and starfleet taking advantage of firing zones, etc.

there's few examples of propper tactics, but there's also examples of Team member getting into each others firing lines and failing to use cover. (the additional training of the Hazard Team, is what they have learned during combat).[/quote]

I thought the cargo bay is more of a fluke. It's their own damn ship, and you don't have a choice but to meet the boarders from the upper catwalks.

A better example is the borg ship(s), both in the simulation prologue and the disconnected drones. Your squaddies charge down the hall to engage Borg with their rifles at close range, despite Borg only having hand to hand attacks.

That is, when the borg start shooting, your squaddies refuse to take cover. They charge, phasers blazing.

[NecronLord]

I'm sorry. This is a game mechanic issue. The EF guys do that indeed, because they're running on the Q3 engine. Stormtroopers in JK2 do exactly the same things.

We don't know about their tactical skill.

[Lord Revan]

I'm sorry. This is a game mechanic issue. The EF guys do that indeed, because they're running on the Q3 engine. Stormtroopers in JK2 do exactly the same things.

We don't know about their tactical skill.

we do know about the Tactical skills of Goldshirts and there some evidence in EF1&2 (in the dialoge) about Hazard Team training and tactics compared to that standard SF training and tactics.

[Perseid]

I'm sorry. This is a game mechanic issue. The EF guys do that indeed, because they're running on the Q3 engine. Stormtroopers in JK2 do exactly the same things.

We don't know about their tactical skill.

we do know about the Tactical skills of Goldshirts and there some evidence in EF1&2 (in the dialoge) about Hazard Team training and tactics compared to that standard SF training and tactics.

IIRC in EF2 Munro gets assigned to the academy as an instructor in small unit tactics. This would indicate that he, as the leader of the Hazard Team, had at least a grasp of squad tactics beyond that of a normal goldshirt.

[Phyre]

Quick question? Does D squad get therms? Therms could seriously ruin Hazard Team's day...

[Alyeska]

Delta Squad is a very good team, but I don't see them winning this. The Hazzard Team is mostly comprised of combat veterans who know infantry tactics very well. They are on the short end of the stick when it comes to firepower, but they still have some tricks up their sleeves as well as superior numbers. Full power phaser rifle shots will do some serious damage to Delta Squad. Especialy if the Hazzard Team is using fully powered sniper shots from their Type-3c rifles.

In a surprise encounter, Delta Squad could pull a victory. But if the Hazzard Team can detect Delta before hand, Delta is going to be hurting.

[Alyeska]

I think a safe comparison for the Hazzard Teams is similar to MACOs from Enterprise. And last time Delta Squad got pitted against the Enterprise, it was agreed that MACOs could give Delta a run for their money.

[Darth Wong]

2 questions:

1) How is Delta Squad hoping to perform their insertion? And how is the extraction supposed to take place if they succeed in capturing the command personnel and eliminating any resistance they encounter? Because the answers to these questions could significantly change the outcome of the scenario. They must have some kind of support outside the building, and this kind of mission by its nature implies some sort of advance planning.

2) Is there any way to estimate how many phaser shots the Delta Squad shields could take before they drop? Because shielded armour is a pretty significant advantage, but if no one can quantify the relative strengths of the Hazard team weapons and the Delta Squad shields, then it becomes a big fat unknown. And unfortunately, it would be an unknown which is of significant importance to the outcome.

[Alyeska]

2) Is there any way to estimate how many phaser shots the Delta Squad shields could take before they drop? Because shielded armour is a pretty significant advantage, but if no one can quantify the relative strengths of the Hazard team weapons and the Delta Squad shields, then it becomes a big fat unknown. And unfortunately, it would be an unknown which is of significant importance to the outcome.

]

The standard firepower settings for the phasers is going to be insufficent to kill or seriously harm Delta Squad members. The firepower on the Phaser Rifles is going to have to be cranked up. Now the standard sniper configuration for the phaser rifles as of EF-2 is total vaporization. That should be sufficent firepower to cause Delta Squad some grief.

[Lord of the Farce]

Now the standard sniper configuration for the phaser rifles as of EF-2 is total vaporization. That should be sufficent firepower to cause Delta Squad some grief.

Was it vaporization, or "phasorisation"? It might not mean much difference to relatively unarmoured targets, but against the Deltas' fully enclosed and shielded armour, it's another story all together.

[Alyeska]

Now the standard sniper configuration for the phaser rifles as of EF-2 is total vaporization. That should be sufficent firepower to cause Delta Squad some grief.

Was it vaporization, or "phasorisation"? It might not mean much difference to relatively unarmoured targets, but against the Deltas' fully enclosed and shielded armour, it's another story all together.

Standard Phaser vaporization. That still requires imense firepower and energy from the weapon compared to standard kill settings.

[Perseid]

1) How is Delta Squad hoping to perform their insertion? And how is the extraction supposed to take place if they succeed in capturing the command personnel and eliminating any resistance they encounter? Because the answers to these questions could significantly change the outcome of the scenario. They must have some kind of support outside the building, and this kind of mission by its nature implies some sort of advance planning.

Insertion and extraction is being handled by their Gunship that they use in the game. The gunship clears an DZ outside SF command and blasts the front lobby to clear any goldshirts waiting inside, not exactly the best place for the Hazard Team to engage so their deeper inside the facility.

Deltas objectives I have listed, the only extra data that they have gained is a general map of the building. They do not know how heavy the resistance is going to be, but thanks to the maps they know roughly where the command staff are located.

Upon completion of their objectives they are to call for extraction and proceed back the way they came, where the gunship will ensure a clear LZ and extract them and their prisoners.

Since this is a war situation Hazard Team are allowed to use any and all means to stop the Deltas from completing their mission as command would rather have to rebuild sections of the building rather than become prisoners of war.

[Lord Revan]

Will the LAAT/i have any other Clones then the advisor and the pilots. And how will Starfleet command react if the Hazard Team kills one of the Admirals while trying to take out a Delta (that's why I say heavy weapon use will be limited, not because it will damage the building).

[Perseid]

Will the LAAT/i have any other Clones then the advisor and the pilots.

Only the advisor would be in the LAAT.

And how will Starfleet command react if the Hazard Team kills one of the Admirals while trying to take out a Delta (that's why I say heavy weapon use will be limited, not because it will damage the building).

I would hope that the Admirals have already got themselves to a secure part of the building when the fighting starts, and I would also hope that the Hazard Team would aim to hit the Deltas with the heavy weapons when they are as far away as possible not in the enclosed area of somewhere like Central Command where the shrapnel and concussion from the blast could injure them.

[Lord Revan]

Will the LAAT/i have any other Clones then the advisor and the pilots.

Only the advisor would be in the LAAT.

in addition of the Pilots you mean?

And how will Starfleet command react if the Hazard Team kills one of the Admirals while trying to take out a Delta (that's why I say heavy weapon use will be limited, not because it will damage the building).

I would hope that the Admirals have already got themselves to a secure part of the building when the fighting starts, and I would also hope that the Hazard Team would aim to hit the Deltas with the heavy weapons when they are as far away as possible not in the enclosed area of somewhere like Central Command where the shrapnel and concussion from the blast could injure them.

The Clone Commandos are not stupid (in fact they just bellow the ARCs ) and would look for best possible route to the target and would probaly use flashbangs (or what ever they called in the game) on open hall ways (and IIRC Hazard suit doesn't protect against this)

[Lord Revan]

And I hope this isn't "let's remove the Deltas armor and tie their hands behind their backs" vs.

[Laird]

Now the standard sniper configuration for the phaser rifles as of EF-2 is total vaporization. That should be sufficent firepower to cause Delta Squad some grief.

Was it vaporization, or "phasorisation"? It might not mean much difference to relatively unarmoured targets, but against the Deltas' fully enclosed and shielded armour, it's another story all together.

It should be noted phasers are equal to blasters on occasion a scene very similar happens in Nemesis that also happens in ANH. An armoured security door is breached easily with one phaser blast. From what I remeber it took several shots from regular carbines to do the same thing.(or atleast thats what it sounded like to me.)

Take it as you will.

[Perseid]

And I hope this isn't "let's remove the Deltas armor and tie their hands behind their backs" vs.

No way, the only advantage that Hazard Team has really got is home turf and the number of weapons they've got. Course the Deltas would probably be able to kill a Hazard team member, in H2H, with a spoon.

[Alyeska]

And I hope this isn't "let's remove the Deltas armor and tie their hands behind their backs" vs.

No way, the only advantage that Hazard Team has really got is home turf and the number of weapons they've got. Course the Deltas would probably be able to kill a Hazard team member, in H2H, with a spoon.

Don't make stupid comments. Hazard Team members are all well trained as soldiers except for a few of their mission specialists. Even then those types have learned well. Chell is far less a coward in EF2 and even in EF he would and did fight.